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MBB: vs. Binghamton


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MsGDG, you seem like a knowledgeable and enthusiastic supporter of the UA hoop program and I have no problem with your positive, “glass half full” appraisal. I don't think the current state of the Siena program has anything to do with the trajectory of the UA program since Jamar graduated. I use Jamar as the touchstone because we squandered the opportunity to leverage the success he brought to the program. Some programs havea special player who not only wins while he is there, but also transforms the program going forward. Contrast our performance "post-Jamar" with Vermont's performance "post Coppenrath". Before Coppenrath played for UVM, the Catamounts were a perennial losing program and a frequent doormat in the AE. From 1970 to 2001 (32 seasons) UVM never won more than 16 games and had a losing record in 25 out of 32. Since 2001 (Coppenrath's freshman year), Vermont has won 20 or more games 10 of 12 years, with 8 AE championship game appearances. Clearly, the success of the Coppenrath years raised the UVM profile, which was used by Lonergan to land better recruits (Trimboli, Blakely, Voelkel, etc), and perpetuated Vermont's success. We have not come close to replicating that kind of sustained excellence in the AE. I am realistic about the UA program...there are structural limitations (especially the bball budget-which is low major for sure) which make it hard to move up. The hoop budgets for teams in the CAA are substantially higher than ours. Hoop budgets in the A10 are 2-3 times larger than ours. That may continue to be a challenge down the road, but there is no reason why we should not win 10-14 games in AE conference play year in, year out. Injuries, JUCO's who don't pan out, bad calls by refs, and all the other micro-explanations can no longer be used to justify a sub-.500 conference record in the AE. Six years ago, I thought the balance of power had shifted from UVM to UA. I thought every home game would be like the Big Purple Growl by now. The reality is that very little has changed. I still enjoy going to games, will still support the team in other ways, but the program seems to be stuck in neutral for the foreseeable future.

 

+1

 

To speak in cliched terms, as I mentioned to somebody the other day: The ship is not sinking, but it doesn't appear to be headed to an exotic port of call either.

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Oh no question we are ahead of them compared to the time we've been D1. I'd like to see where we'll be 22 years from now. Hopefully not in the America east :)

 

Haha, I hope too! Just trying to figure the facts, comparisons etc behind why there's a ledge people are on with the program being on a 'downswing'. People can feel anyway they want we are all entitled to that, I guess I look for facts and figures which tie to real expectations.. not just what "I feel" as a fan should happen, but realistically what can happen based on history. Not saying UA couldn't make history, we could I guess.. but not sure how realistic that is. Anyway, I just enjoy the wins, stay through the losses, clap that we have smart kids on the team, be optimistic that would get to the tourney every year and in 22 years hope we can finally have a home game against Siena. ;)

MsGDG, you seem like a knowledgeable and enthusiastic supporter of the UA hoop program and I have no problem with your positive, “glass half full” appraisal. I don't think the current state of the Siena program has anything to do with the trajectory of the UA program since Jamar graduated. I use Jamar as the touchstone because we squandered the opportunity to leverage the success he brought to the program. Some programs havea special player who not only wins while he is there, but also transforms the program going forward. Contrast our performance "post-Jamar" with Vermont's performance "post Coppenrath". Before Coppenrath played for UVM, the Catamounts were a perennial losing program and a frequent doormat in the AE. From 1970 to 2001 (32 seasons) UVM never won more than 16 games and had a losing record in 25 out of 32. Since 2001 (Coppenrath's freshman year), Vermont has won 20 or more games 10 of 12 years, with 8 AE championship game appearances. Clearly, the success of the Coppenrath years raised the UVM profile, which was used by Lonergan to land better recruits (Trimboli, Blakely, Voelkel, etc), and perpetuated Vermont's success. We have not come close to replicating that kind of sustained excellence in the AE. I am realistic about the UA program...there are structural limitations (especially the bball budget-which is low major for sure) which make it hard to move up. The hoop budgets for teams in the CAA are substantially higher than ours. Hoop budgets in the A10 are 2-3 times larger than ours. That may continue to be a challenge down the road, but there is no reason why we should not win 10-14 games in AE conference play year in, year out. Injuries, JUCO's who don't pan out, bad calls by refs, and all the other micro-explanations can no longer be used to justify a sub-.500 conference record in the AE. Six years ago, I thought the balance of power had shifted from UVM to UA. I thought every home game would be like the Big Purple Growl by now. The reality is that very little has changed. I still enjoy going to games, will still support the team in other ways, but the program seems to be stuck in neutral for the foreseeable future.

 

Thanks for the post. I'm a pessimistic person most the time . you may be the first person to ever imply I'm optimistic lol. I'll add I only brought up Siena as an example of a team people thought was ready to make the big transition and it didn't happen... meaning maybe it's easier said than done.

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I doubt Vermont aspires to move up in conference. Hockey is the only other sport of significance at UVM, and they already play in the Hockey East, which is one of the top conferences for that sport. UA's future in hoops is obviously tethered to football and lacrosse, and I agree moving up in conference level would be a challenge for many reasons, the most important being money. That should not be an excuse for mediocrity in the AE basketball conference. The first step to growth is sustained excellence in the conference you play in, whether it is the America East or elsewhere. Vermont can do it with different coaches, substandard facilities, remote location, etc. We should be able to do it as well. Maybe not every year, but most years. Butler moved up because they dominated the weak Horizon conference, Creighton dominated the stronger Missouri Valley before they moved up, VCU did the same in the CAA.

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Come on...Burlington, baby! That is one hip town!

(And I suppose the school isn't so bad either.)

 

And nowhere in Albany is there an outdoor gear store half as cool as the Outdoor Gear Exchange.

 

I'm with you on Burlington, but most D1 hoop prospects don't care much about ski mountains, hiking gear, etc.

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I believe siena has certainly capitalized on their run they had. They're getting a brand new practice facility and have a lot of young talent. If it weren't for a bad coaching hire after their coach left who knows they may have actually gotten an invite to the A10. It's that 4.5 year stretch where we didn't capitalize on the back to back tourney appearances. The conference record speaks for itself as we've only had double digit wins in conference three times. Two of which were the championship years.

 

You do know they (LCC) are currently working on their 4th straight losing season so I certainly hope their "capitalizing" on their run continues in the same fashion

Lol. I do think they screwed up hiring their last coach. That guy was an idiot and looked clueless. He brought them backwards about 10 steps, but enough talking about them.

 

You never will hear me say that. He returned them to their rightful place.

But you are right about enough about them until they are good enough to play on the road :)

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