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TOO MANY LAWYERS


dslyank

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An interesting piece on WGY news this AM. The interim Dean of UB law expressed that New York already has too many law schools and more lawyers than any state in the union. He is questioning allocating state funds to both Binghamton and Stonybrook and for some law school in Rochester, when UB law is already underfunded and the State already has such a glutten of law schools and lawyers. This might be a time for some "bad" lawyer jokes, but I do not want to offend the lawyers who participate in this blog---even though I am sure you would not really mind a little less competion in your field (there really are a ton of you already). Suffice to say most of our legislators, congress man, governers, etc. who so wisely allocate and budget state fund so "fairly" are lawyers or ex-lawyers.

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The ABA (American Bar Association) created this problem in early 1990's.

 

It had the ability to do what the AMA (American Medical Association) did and limit enrollment in law schools like enrollment was limited in medical schools. Ie: if you want to be sanctioned your enrollment must be limited.

 

But they didn't, and now law school has become a "safety net" to many undergraduate students. It really is a shame. You'd be amazed the amount of people who graduate from law school and are no longer practicing five years after graduation.

 

You'd also be amazed at the number of people that graduate from law school and earn a salary similar to that they would have earned with a teaching degree, but then they have $100,000 in law school debt.

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I agree with the foregoing posts, especially the initial post! Too many lawyers, way too many law schools in this state (many of which need more $$ to keep up), and no need for more law schools! I would not want to see another law school created, but I wouldn't mind seeing SUNY adopt or create a naming agreement with one of the current law schools (hint hint: Albany Law School of UAlbany).*

 

As far as competition goes, I have no doubt that the saturated legal market leads to lower salaries and higher debt. I am one of the lucky law graduates in that my student debt is under 100K (around 68K now; I lived at home w/ the parents throughout graduate school at UAlbany and then also during law school). Nonetheless, my monthly loan payment is $415/month, and most of my classmates and current law graduates are paying easily $800/month and up!!! I know someone who pays $2200 a month in student loan payments!!!

 

And as far as the starting salaries, a joke. Indeed, many of us would have been better going off going into teaching. Albany is one of the worst places in the state (Buffalo is bad too). Albany is saturated with lawyers, which drives the salaries down and perpetuates tons and tons of small law firms.

 

Why do we have so many lawyers? Perhaps because we have more laws than any other state, and lots and lots of litigation. Much of this litigation goes through NYC and the "mighty" Southern District (and the County and Supreme Courts of the 5 New York City counties). Whether or not NYC is or is not the financial capital of the World, there is no doubt as to the fact that it's probably the litigation capital of the world! Ergo, lots of NY lawyers (and laws). Think about it -- Wall Street, the SEC, all the corporations and accounting firms, and millions and millions of people packed into several relatively small islands (and Long Island) ready to commit torts upon one another due to the heat, traffic, and stress. :)

 

 

* Were a relationship -- by name or otherwise -- be formed with Albany Law School and UAlbany, think of the possibilities. How about we start with a pre-law program developed through the Criminal Justice and Political Science Departments (and the Rockefeller College) perhaps available ONLY through admission into the acclaimed Honors Program? Or, if not that, then simply available to all undergraduates as a major utilizing coursework from the aforementioned programs. Just brainstorming here, but imagine the lure that a true pre-law program like that at UAlbany would have (in the capital of New York State no less)! Consider Albany Law's Government Law Center and Clinical programs and UAlbany's top-ranked Criminal Justice program (ok ok, #2 right now only because Maryland got a huge grant -- $12 million or so -- from its next-door neighbor, the Department of Homeland Security). Now imagine if the two schools teamed up to offer a pre-law program whereby students who excelled in that special honors program would be, perhaps, streamlined for automatic admission into Albany Law (for example). No new law schools are needed. New arrangements, however, are in order!

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I like the Justice Robert H. Jackson School of Law at the University at Albany.

 

Jackson is one of Albany Law most famous alumns (including President McKinley, SC Justice Brewer and Dick Parsons of recent fame (CEO of Time Warner)).

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I like the Justice Robert H. Jackson School of Law at the University at Albany.

 

Jackson is one of Albany Law most famous alumns (including President McKinley, SC Justice Brewer and Dick Parsons of recent fame (CEO of Time Warner)).

 

Right you are! Yup, I was just going to mention Parons, but I saw it at the end of your post. Wasn't he on the cover of Newsweek a couple years ago? Pretty sure he was #1 in his class at Albany Law in the late 1970s, right?

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I do know there is some form of partnership between Rockefeller College and Albany Law, as there are students in Rockefeller getting their JD/MPA. Not sure of the extent of the partnership or exactly what it entails, but I do know some students are doing it.

 

 

You can also get a joint MSW/JD from UA and Albany Law.

 

Dick Parsons is on the Board of Trustees for Albany Law. Now that is using your alumni the right way.

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There are definitely at least a couple joint degree programs (was there one with RPI at one point?), but I'm hoping for something more than a joint degree program. What I would like to see is ALS dropping the "of Union University" and associating itself exclusively with UAlbany. I think both schools would benefit, but I am also very biased given that I attended both schools! :)

 

With even a simply naming association such as Albany Law School of the State University of New York at Albany (or ALS of UAlbany), perhaps ALS could still retain its independence and its status as the nation's oldest private law school. I know that is important to ALS, and I wouldn't expect them to ditch that with the increased endowment in recent years. But I do think, given that we simply have a naming association with Union University now, a naming association with UAlbany would be better than one with Union University. I think that's really all I'm getting at. I hope it's at least a rational argument to some folks.

 

I had no idea that Parsons was on the Board -- cool!

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