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Eli

[MBB] Game #30: 2/24/18 - 7:00pm - vs Maine

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Not to mention I'm not sure when we've gotten "smoked" in the tourney (other than Virginia). We've had some crap matchups and they've played out just how our games would play out against any top 25 team. I'm down with being pissed off about losing to bad teams in the league. Thinking we should be winning tourney games or making tourney run's is Vermont fan level delusional. Only way you're winning one out of this league is by stealing a game from a damn good team. There's a reason people remember when low/mid's do it.

 

We always do 'well'.........for the first 25-30 minutes. Then we got our doors blown off when the other guys go on a 15-2 run or something because our athletes are gassed compared to theirs when they have 13 guys who'd start on our team and we only have maybe 1 or 2 that would start on theirs or even get serious minutes (that's just how the cookie crumbles for our tier of D1 hoops). The final score might not be us getting beat by 50, but we sure as hell can't compete for 40 minutes with those teams. That's just how it is.

 

I'm tired of just doing 'well'. Either we need to focus on having a FULL SEASON of dominance and stop just waiting for the 'new season in March'...or we need to get the hell out of the AE. We have 5 titles and we're still bumbling along the high end of the low majors with Vermont who has had their own share of continued success.

 

That's why getting a seed in the low teens is vital. Facing #1's and #2's every time we make the dance is doing nothing for us. Just adding L's. Playing a #5 is a much better proposition for anyone at our level. There is a reason why there pretty much a yearly upset of a #5 by a #12 for example. When's the last time a #1 or #2 lost in the first round? #1 never, #2 only 8 times in the history of the dance:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament_upsets#Round_of_64

 

The list gets WAY longer the closer you get to #12, #13, etc. although it's still not a given you'll win that game.

Edited by Eli

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Not to mention I'm not sure when we've gotten "smoked" in the tourney (other than Virginia). We've had some crap matchups and they've played out just how our games would play out against any top 25 team. I'm down with being pissed off about losing to bad teams in the league. Thinking we should be winning tourney games or making tourney run's is Vermont fan level delusional. Only way you're winning one out of this league is by stealing a game from a damn good team. There's a reason people remember when low/mid's do it.

 

We always do 'well'.........for the first 25-30 minutes. Then we got our doors blown off when the other guys go on a 15-2 run or something because our athletes are gassed compared to theirs when they have 13 guys who'd start on our team and we only have maybe 1 or 2 that would start on theirs or even get serious minutes (that's just how the cookie crumbles for our tier of D1 hoops). The final score might not be us getting beat by 50, but we sure as hell can't compete for 40 minutes with those teams. That's just how it is.

 

I'm tired of just doing 'well'. Either we need to focus on having a FULL SEASON of dominance and stop just waiting for the 'new season in March'...or we need to get the hell out of the AE. We have 5 titles and we're still bumbling along the high end of the low majors with Vermont who has had their own share of continued success.

 

That's why getting a seed in the low teens is vital. Facing #1's and #2's every time we make the dance is doing nothing for us. Just adding L's. Playing a #5 is a much better proposition for anyone at our level. There is a reason why there pretty much a yearly upset of a #5 by a #12 for example. When's the last time a #1 or #2 lost in the first round? #1 never, #2 only 8 times in the history of the dance:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament_upsets#Round_of_64

 

The list gets WAY longer the closer you get to #12, #13, etc. although it's still not a given you'll win that game.

 

 

I'm going to disagree with the general sentiment that getting NCAA trips and losing is useless...You try to win the conference, then the tournament then try to get a game or two in the NCAA tourney. Repeatedly making the tournament even if not winning shows that it's a winning program and can go dancing which entices kids like Rizzuto, DeSousa etc.

 

Newflash, the AE is a garbage league...there is no money to move to a better league nor facilities etc. So you make do with the best you got until you are in position to enhance your position. Dancing enhances your profile even if you get beat is very valuable to a low major league like the AE as it pays dividends on the recruiting trail. It's very difficult to win a game in the NCAA for a crappy league like the AE, always ranked in the bottom 10 as a conference. Vermont went perfect last year, won 29 games on the year and promptly got beat by double digits by Perdue as a 13 seed.

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Ordinarily, I'd have a rant about how spoiled we are to be complaining about how unsatisfying NCAA tournament appearances and 20-win seasons are but I suspect you guys are just trying to irritate any Bing fans who might be reading our board.

 

BTW, a bunch of us were at our most recent NCAA tournament game against Oklahoma. Buddy Hield played right to the end and it was a six point game with a minute left.

Edited by Dane Pound
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Ordinarily, I'd have a rant about how spoiled we are to be complaining about how unsatisfying NCAA tournament appearances and 20-win seasons are but I suspect you guys are just trying to irritate any Bing fans who might be reading our board.

 

BTW, a bunch of us were at our most recent NCAA tournament game against Oklahoma. Buddy Hield played right to the end and it was a six point game with a minute left.

And my throat is still soar from yelling at those Oklahoma alumni refs!

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Not to mention I'm not sure when we've gotten "smoked" in the tourney (other than Virginia). We've had some crap matchups and they've played out just how our games would play out against any top 25 team. I'm down with being pissed off about losing to bad teams in the league. Thinking we should be winning tourney games or making tourney run's is Vermont fan level delusional. Only way you're winning one out of this league is by stealing a game from a damn good team. There's a reason people remember when low/mid's do it.

 

We always do 'well'.........for the first 25-30 minutes. Then we got our doors blown off when the other guys go on a 15-2 run or something because our athletes are gassed compared to theirs when they have 13 guys who'd start on our team and we only have maybe 1 or 2 that would start on theirs or even get serious minutes (that's just how the cookie crumbles for our tier of D1 hoops). The final score might not be us getting beat by 50, but we sure as hell can't compete for 40 minutes with those teams. That's just how it is.

 

I'm tired of just doing 'well'. Either we need to focus on having a FULL SEASON of dominance and stop just waiting for the 'new season in March'...or we need to get the hell out of the AE. We have 5 titles and we're still bumbling along the high end of the low majors with Vermont who has had their own share of continued success.

 

That's why getting a seed in the low teens is vital. Facing #1's and #2's every time we make the dance is doing nothing for us. Just adding L's. Playing a #5 is a much better proposition for anyone at our level. There is a reason why there pretty much a yearly upset of a #5 by a #12 for example. When's the last time a #1 or #2 lost in the first round? #1 never, #2 only 8 times in the history of the dance:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_Men%27s_Basketball_Tournament_upsets#Round_of_64

 

The list gets WAY longer the closer you get to #12, #13, etc. although it's still not a given you'll win that game.

 

 

Winning does very little for changing conferences and turning into a big program, all that matters is money. Pick a program you want to be and I'll tell you how much larger their basketball budget was than ours. We've had the success of a top half/top third basketball program over these past years with the budget of a bottom third program.

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Winning the conference tournament and going to the NCAA tournament is definitely not a waste, but if we want to win a game there one day you have to win more than 9/10 games during the regular season.

 

The point is devaluing the importance of the regular season and just going with three games in March is all that matters just isnt the approach Id want the team to take anymore.

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Winning the conference tournament and going to the NCAA tournament is definitely not a waste, but if we want to win a game there one day you have to win more than 9/10 games during the regular season.

 

The point is devaluing the importance of the regular season and just going with three games in March is all that matters just isnt the approach Id want the team to take anymore.

 

I don't think anyone on the staff cavalierly dismisses the regular season as if it didn't matter. Truth be told it appears some of the kids that were recruited and the coaching staff needs to take a look in the mirror...didn't or will not pan out. That has led to almost no depth, and tired legs for starters etc.

 

The coaches job is to put the team in the best position to win games, unfortunately that has meant heavy minutes for starters. Look at Clark's numbers last 4 or 5 games...how are you gonna put him in there? He's just not helping the team. I'm as disappointed as anyone in the lack of depth...I for one did not see this lack of depth coming. Maybe it's on the coaches that they aren't preparing the depth of developing it but every time I see them on the court, it's not good.

 

Clark's #'s

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Edited by Clickclack

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I think the premise that we don't try to win the regular season is false. I believe the coaches and players try to win every game.

 

Look at the run UVM is on in AE Conference play recently and they've been to the NCAAs once in the past 5 years.

 

There are no guarantees.

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Send them to work on defense with former NBAer Mike Bibby..........

 

Mike Bibby, Coach on the Rise: Former NBAer Now Helms a Prep Powerhouse

"Put those motherf--kers in the hole we're gonna dig for them," the 39-year-old says to his team. "We're gonna kick their ass like we're supposed to do."

 

Matadors are arguably the most exciting, uptempo boys high school basketball team in the country this season, scoring 89 points a game, good for fourth in the nation, with a frenetic full-court defense that leads all schools with 24.3 steals per contest. (They're also ninth in assists.)

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I have to imagine there is great importance put on winning during the OOC and conference schedule leading up to the most important games, the 3 at the end. The OOC schedule was set up to be a firm test against a lot of teams just as good as us or a little bit better. On paper I thought it was an excellent schedule. Part of the reason so much importance is placed on those final 3 is because the system is what it is. You can be an outstanding team and lose in the semi's of your tourney and its all over. Is it all for nothing? The great debate really.

 

I remember being in the gym when Jamar was a freshman and a cell phone would ring and the whole gym would hear it. We were no one back then. I completely disagree with the idea that getting to the tournament is useless if we can't win a game. Would it be fun to win a game, absolutely, but you most likely are losing the next one. Siena had a stacked team the year they were a 9 seed and they still lost in the second round. Being a part of selection Sunday, getting the extra week of lead up to the game and getting to play that one game as a fan is awesome. I have loved it every year, even the Virginia year!

 

CB has done such a great job and raised the bar so high, sometimes we become a little out of touch with what reality is for this team, university and level of basketball. Until we move conferences, if remove conferences, this is it. Strong teams year in and year out, great kids, solid players and good students across the board. He has done so well we can't go backwards anymore. Everyone remember how those years with Tim Ambrose and Will Harris felt? 7 wins I think one year. It was brutal.

 

Be consistent, be in position to win the tourney and its icing on the cake if we get there. I think patch said in a different thread. We did just go 3 years in a row not too long ago!

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Winning the conference tournament and going to the NCAA tournament is definitely not a waste, but if we want to win a game there one day you have to win more than 9/10 games during the regular season.

 

The point is devaluing the importance of the regular season and just going with three games in March is all that matters just isnt the approach Id want the team to take anymore.

 

I don't think anyone on the staff cavalierly dismisses the regular season as if it didn't matter. Truth be told it appears some of the kids that were recruited and the coaching staff needs to take a look in the mirror...didn't or will not pan out. That has led to almost no depth, and tired legs for starters etc.

 

 

I was thinking about this the other night.. the recruiting side of things. I'm going through the hiring process now at work and thought about how it related to basketball.

 

Sorry if this seems like a jumble of thoughts..

 

So the coaches go out and recruit kids based on their talent against teams they have played against. Most will have no D1 experience..so the coaches really have no idea how they will perform once given D1 scouts, asked to play D, or asked to ride the bench until needed (things these high school stars likely aren't asked to do much of). These are things all coaches have to deal with..

 

Now the kid may come in, you may teach them everything they need to know, give them all the tools and they still may not be able to do perform at the level you need them to on the court. They may not be able to grasp the scout..they may not be not pick up the plays you're asking them to memorize, and they may not be able to pick up how to play D or they may not be able to hit the shots they did in highschool as the D1 guys they are playing against are much bigger.

 

Now if this was someone I hired.. and I gave them all the tools and they didn't work out, I could fire them...and not waste a spot in my office. I mean I don't need someone who can't do the job I hired them for. But in the interview, the resume, the references I really thought they would do well. I thought they would fit into the office with what we're looking to do. I mean why would I hire someone who I thought would suck?

 

Bring this back to basketball.. so the coaches now have people they brought on the team, gave a scholarship to, gave tools to and some can't seem to perform. Some of those butts are taking up scholarships and seats on the bench. And well these are student-athletes not employees..so we can't fire them.

 

I say this not because I think we should be able to kick someone off the team for not performing because.. they are students first... but that I think at least myself...I sometimes think recruiting/putting a team together should be more obvious. And then I realize (like I am now while hiring) most the time it's a complete crap shoot with what you're going to get...and imagine if you can't get rid of people when you find out they're not good...or can't move them to another unit, etc. And imagine you're hiring someone to be your programmer in your office and they suck and you can't get rid of them.. but no one else on your team can program.. because well you have limited spots to hire people. What do you do? Just let them sit there and ask someone else to try and learn to program. For basketball what do you do...you can't ask a PG you recruited to be a center.. etc. (And we're in the AE so we're not going to have access to people who are multifaceted)

 

I'm no coach but I can def see that it's got to be a crazy ass puzzle to put all together.

 

I think, it seems to me.. this is the worst bench we have had. I can only hope and feel confident that this doesn't seem to be a normal CB/staff move.. we normally don't have a bench this bad. So for me I'm going to put this on the players not the staff recruiting since this is the same staff that got us Sanders, Singletary just a few yrs ago. I trust they know what they are doing. It's just sometimes players/workers don't pan out and they get their seat on the bench/bus regardless. Staff has done their best with what they have.. again we have 20 wins which is great.. but even if you do your best, you're still down a few guys due to the lack of your bench production/not working out..... without some duct-tape, a paperclip and some gum and maybe someone named Macgyver on your staff you're probably not gonna get to the NCAA.

 

But then again.. we've seen what CB and his staff can do against UVM in a championship game...so maybe one of their middle names is Macgyver, ya never know. ^_^

Edited by MRSGDG
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I think the premise that we don't try to win the regular season is false. I believe the coaches and players try to win every game.

 

Look at the run UVM is on in AE Conference play recently and they've been to the NCAAs once in the past 5 years.

 

There are no guarantees.

Youre right. Not going to disagree that they do want to win every game, but to me the three games in March narrative feels like a cop out or an excuse for a poor regular season. All I have are radio and online articles to go off of so WB could be very well be ripping into his players in the locker room and going with the just be ready coming tournament time with the media.

 

UVM is doing just fine and theres no signs of them slowing down anytime soon, except for maybe this years semi-finals.

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We are all victims of high expectation syndrome. If we came into the season thinking we were rebuilding and performed well, we would all be jumping for joy.

 

I've enjoyed the season so far, but I'll admit to wanting more.

 

I don't think we have a bad bench. I'm in the mindset now that it's the coaching fault for not developing them earlier. Brown has had a very quick hook and played the starters too many minutes in games that had no value if you are just planning for the conference tournament.

 

At this point in our development as a program we have several goals:

 

1. Play a rough OOC to make the conference season seem easy, while hopefully keeping a good record to enhance seeding if we win the conference tournament.

 

2. Play well in conference to get the best seed possible and get home games in the conference tournament.

 

3. Win the conference tournament to make it to the dance. We can go to other post season tournaments, but honestly the team has never seemed to "want it" in those other tournaments.

 

4. Use success in the above as leverage to get better recruits to make the above 3 easier in future seasons.

 

5. Get to a point with recruits where #1 becomes a given and we can eventually get to a spot where if #3 doesn't work out to dance we have a shot at an at large.

 

6. Have enough success where number 4 and 5 become easier and we can move to a better conference.

 

So far this season, we did well with #1, but it seems like #2 has failed.

 

Back to high expectations: how great must Hartford fans feel right now after what everyone expected from them?

Edited by godanesgo99

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Tourny starts in a week and a half. Time to strap on the boots and get ready to rumble.

How many times did we win the AE tourny going in as a 3, 4 or 5 seed?

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