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dslyank

Football, athletics resources (moved)

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Speaking of revenue distribution, I will be posting an idea in the football thread that UA return to the Northeast Conference. I certainly DO NOT have any power to enact such an idea; and I know the idea will be SLAMMED! But I just do not see the projected attendance and revenue growth predicted by jumping to the caa. I certainly have not seen winning football at that level.

I do not know the number$, but believe we could SAVE considerable monies by returning to the Northeast conference with less scholarships and less travel. In the NE we would compete EVERY YEAR for an automatic ncaa bid. In 5 years in the caa we have never even sniffed the auto bid (and may never or seldom) and have only once had a shot @ the 2-3 at large bids that the caa potentially offers. The "national exposure" loss by our caa departure would be more than made up by spreading the monies saved/gained around to other sports {lacrosse particularly.} I admit my lacrosse bias, but even if we allocated all the saving into basketball, it would be better spent than what we waste (IMHO) on caa football.

Edited by dslyank
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I'm relatively new to following FCS football and I know the passion and effort of the guys playing is no different than the guys playing in front of 100,000 people in the Big 10. For a long time until this year's resurgence in Syracuse and BC, football success in the Northeast has been on a long slide down.

I know at North Dakota, and I would assume James Madison and other FCS powers football is a big deal, but for the investment does being an FCS power vs an FBS team is it a big deal? I can't say, but I know kids make college decisions based upon SEC football, Big 10, but in the East Coast or Northeast does a kid make a college choice based upon success in FCS football?? I think North Dakota is an outlier.

If one can't be a power in the CAA it would seem to me that a lesser conference with fewer scholarships would be the way to go in order to support programs where a school can compete and can add cache. 

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47 minutes ago, AlbanyFan2018 said:

I'm relatively new to following FCS football and I know the passion and effort of the guys playing is no different than the guys playing in front of 100,000 people in the Big 10. For a long time until this year's resurgence in Syracuse and BC, football success in the Northeast has been on a long slide down.

I know at North Dakota, and I would assume James Madison and other FCS powers football is a big deal, but for the investment does being an FCS power vs an FBS team is it a big deal? I can't say, but I know kids make college decisions based upon SEC football, Big 10, but in the East Coast or Northeast does a kid make a college choice based upon success in FCS football?? I think North Dakota is an outlier.

If one can't be a power in the CAA it would seem to me that a lesser conference with fewer scholarships would be the way to go in order to support programs where a school can compete and can add cache. 

Let's hire a real coach and find out... To soon to throw in towel. 

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I have zero opinion and don't know enough, but agree give this time, but I can see having the discussion about the pros and cons of what kind of commitment to make to non FBS football in terms of the cost/benefit analysis. 

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The time has come to undertake a serious analysis of how to approach the UAlbany community on the reasons to support our sports programs...this is a big deal.

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11 hours ago, cwdickens said:

The time has come to undertake a serious analysis of how to approach the UAlbany community on the reasons to support our sports programs...this is a big deal.

Why? What's changed? 

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Nothing has changed per se.  But neither the community, nor the student body support UA athletics to the extent that the appropriate facilities are consistently near or at capacity {except possibly lacrosse, where gold seats at least are always sold out or nearly so.}  We STILL have a Title IX penalty hanging over our heads. So what I am saying, is UA needs to take a serious look at how they allocate resources to which sports and do a cost/benefit analysis. I certainly have no power to instigate such an activity; but at some point the Title IX issue is going to rear its ugly head. I expect/hope such a review is already going on and wish it would be more open. The community (us on this blog particularly but not exclusively), students, and local businesses and politicians should all have input. Instead everything seems to occur behind closed doors with little or no communications. Not a good policy if you are trying to increase attendances and DONATIONS.

As for the particular issue I brought up about leaving the caa; while I agree with you 100% we probably DO need a new coach; I still do not see how the caa has advanced attendance, donations, or University perception. While many have made some valid points that leaving the caa would not save us anything, I would like/hope the powers to be and those really in the KNOW would include this in a cost/benefit/resource allocation analysis. 

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1 hour ago, dslyank said:

Nothing has changed per se.  But neither the community, nor the student body support UA athletics to the extent that the appropriate facilities are consistently near or at capacity {except possibly lacrosse, where gold seats at least are always sold out or nearly so.}  We STILL have a Title IX penalty hanging over our heads. So what I am saying, is UA needs to take a serious look at how they allocate resources to which sports and do a cost/benefit analysis. I certainly have no power to instigate such an activity; but at some point the Title IX issue is going to rear its ugly head. I expect/hope such a review is already going on and wish it would be more open. The community (us on this blog particularly but not exclusively), students, and local businesses and politicians should all have input. Instead everything seems to occur behind closed doors with little or no communications. Not a good policy if you are trying to increase attendances and DONATIONS.

As for the particular issue I brought up about leaving the caa; while I agree with you 100% we probably DO need a new coach; I still do not see how the caa has advanced attendance, donations, or University perception. While many have made some valid points that leaving the caa would not save us anything, I would like/hope the powers to be and those really in the KNOW would include this in a cost/benefit/resource allocation analysis. 

Some really good points, and it would be great to understand the economic impact to the overall athletic department of a middle of the pack vs top tier FCS football program and say Buffalo which competes at the FBS level in the MAC.

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2 hours ago, cwdickens said:

My comment was another tongue in cheek; was not being serious. On the serious side, the Capital District has the greatest concentration of fair weather fans in the world.

Well that's true!

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I can only speak for myself in terms of being a fan. I was a freshman in 1970 and while at school attended basically all home FB games. I went to most home MBB games. Those were the only two sports that I had a spectator interest in. Living in this area my whole life has allowed me to attend FB games when I could. Even dragged my wife and daughter to a home game against Union. Since we built the new stadium I have missed one home game, UNH last year...watched on TV because I was disgusted with the offense. Went to 5 or 6 MLax games and over the last few years have attended several WSOC games. We are at a good level if sustainable. Definitely am against any notion of a move to FBS. Look at UConn and UMass. Struggle, struggle, struggle. Strive to be JMU, not UMass. 

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14 hours ago, jimbo said:

I can only speak for myself in terms of being a fan. I was a freshman in 1970 and while at school attended basically all home FB games. I went to most home MBB games. Those were the only two sports that I had a spectator interest in. Living in this area my whole life has allowed me to attend FB games when I could. Even dragged my wife and daughter to a home game against Union. Since we built the new stadium I have missed one home game, UNH last year...watched on TV because I was disgusted with the offense. Went to 5 or 6 MLax games and over the last few years have attended several WSOC games. We are at a good level if sustainable. Definitely am against any notion of a move to FBS. Look at UConn and UMass. Struggle, struggle, struggle. Strive to be JMU, not UMass. 

"...Definitely am against any notion of a move to FBS. Look at UConn and UMass. Struggle, struggle, struggle. Strive to be JMU, not UMass. ..."

I never actually thought of this.  But people need to remember it took years to move up from Div III, Div II, Div I [1999 I think we moved to Div 1 - lowest level].  Have to develop success for FB etc to even think of moving up.  Basically in lacrosse we are at the highest level - I would say consistent top 20 school, maybe top 10.   I go to every home game Lax and FB, season tickets for years now in FB but only a few for LAX.

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19 hours ago, HOF2013 said:

"...Definitely am against any notion of a move to FBS. Look at UConn and UMass. Struggle, struggle, struggle. Strive to be JMU, not UMass. ..."

I never actually thought of this.  But people need to remember it took years to move up from Div III, Div II, Div I [1999 I think we moved to Div 1 - lowest level].  Have to develop success for FB etc to even think of moving up.  Basically in lacrosse we are at the highest level - I would say consistent top 20 school, maybe top 10.   I go to every home game Lax and FB, season tickets for years now in FB but only a few for LAX.

This the wrong place for this discussion, but: I never thought UA would be at the level they are now in the CAA, but it happened. Took 43 years or so, but it happened. However, I can confidently say that UA will NEVER be a nationally prominent team at the FBS level.  At the FCS level, very realistic. Lax is like hockey. Relatively small number of schools participating means the talent is a bit more spread out and you can catch lightning in a bottle. This is how RPI and Union have managed to win 3 national  D1 championships between them. Even so, MLax is increasing in popularity nationally and at a rapid pace  I truly believe the talent pool will shrink when more P5 schools start a program. Again, I’d rather strive to be relevant at the FCS level instead of aiming to be irrelevant at the FBS level. It could be interesting though to see what happens as parents try to steer their kids away from the known dangers of football to generally safer contact sports like MLax. The pool of talented players may compensate and increase. 

 

NCAA requires an average attendance of 15,000 at the FBS level and a good number of teams are failing or struggling at that, mainly in the Northeast and upper Midwest. Syracuse can’t fill the dome when teams like FSU come to town, let alone their cupcake lineup. FBS is a bad pipe dream for UA. 

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1 hour ago, jimbo said:

This the wrong place for this discussion, but: I never thought UA would be at the level they are now in the CAA, but it happened. Took 43 years or so, but it happened. However, I can confidently say that UA will NEVER be a nationally prominent team at the FBS level.  At the FCS level, very realistic. Lax is like hockey. Relatively small number of schools participating means the talent is a bit more spread out and you can catch lightning in a bottle. This is how RPI and Union have managed to win 3 national  D1 championships between them. Even so, MLax is increasing in popularity nationally and at a rapid pace  I truly believe the talent pool will shrink when more P5 schools start a program. Again, I’d rather strive to be relevant at the FCS level instead of aiming to be irrelevant at the FBS level. It could be interesting though to see what happens as parents try to steer their kids away from the known dangers of football to generally safer contact sports like MLax. The pool of talented players may compensate and increase. 

 

NCAA requires an average attendance of 15,000 at the FBS level and a good number of teams are failing or struggling at that, mainly in the Northeast and upper Midwest. Syracuse can’t fill the dome when teams like FSU come to town, let alone their cupcake lineup. FBS is a bad pipe dream for UA. 

Agree 100%, plus this thread is not the place for that discussion.  This is a lacrosse Thread!   You are correct.  Smaller number of Lax schools but that D I's are increasing with the power 5's and the talent pool will be spread out more.  The 100 year schools still get the top 100 recruits every year too.  AND as we can see, that does make a difference.  As some have stated here, one remarkable thing is that UA maintains such a high level without a large number of those top 100 recruits.  

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16 hours ago, jimbo said:

This the wrong place for this discussion, but: I never thought UA would be at the level they are now in the CAA, but it happened. Took 43 years or so, but it happened. However, I can confidently say that UA will NEVER be a nationally prominent team at the FBS level.  At the FCS level, very realistic. Lax is like hockey. Relatively small number of schools participating means the talent is a bit more spread out and you can catch lightning in a bottle. This is how RPI and Union have managed to win 3 national  D1 championships between them. Even so, MLax is increasing in popularity nationally and at a rapid pace  I truly believe the talent pool will shrink when more P5 schools start a program. Again, I’d rather strive to be relevant at the FCS level instead of aiming to be irrelevant at the FBS level. It could be interesting though to see what happens as parents try to steer their kids away from the known dangers of football to generally safer contact sports like MLax. The pool of talented players may compensate and increase. 

 

NCAA requires an average attendance of 15,000 at the FBS level and a good number of teams are failing or struggling at that, mainly in the Northeast and upper Midwest. Syracuse can’t fill the dome when teams like FSU come to town, let alone their cupcake lineup. FBS is a bad pipe dream for UA. 

Realistically speaking I'm not sure how many actually have this pipe dream at all. Let's find some success at this level for a while... We are a long ways off. 

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23 hours ago, HOF2013 said:

Agree 100%, plus this thread is not the place for that discussion.  This is a lacrosse Thread!   You are correct.  Smaller number of Lax schools but that D I's are increasing with the power 5's and the talent pool will be spread out more.  The 100 year schools still get the top 100 recruits every year too.  AND as we can see, that does make a difference.  As some have stated here, one remarkable thing is that UA maintains such a high level without a large number of those top 100 recruits.  

Title IX is going to put a serious cap on the growth of DI men's lacrosse, and with the growth of the game at the high school level there will continue to be a ton of quality players for everyone, and unlike in football, with lacrosse you only need 18-22 quality guys to compete. It will be interesting to see with the new rules how that all changes. 

As far as rankings go, the lacrosse ranking are probably the most irrelevant of all of them. There are probably 2-4 guys who somehow think they can adequately evaluate and rank hundreds to thousands of players across the country, and much of it is done in the summer which isn't usually the best format to really get a read on players. 

All you have to do is look at the most recent guys who have come through the program to cast a serious doubt on the guys who rank players and recruiting classes.

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