[MBB] Game #15: 12/31/18 - 3:30PM @ Niagara

[dslyank]

Good effort all around with the usual lulls thrown in to keep things interesting. I think some guys are stating to realize they can help this team even if not scoring points. Play defense, rebound, SET legal screens, make good passes, help bring the ball up against pressure and don't turn it over. For instance:  I thought both Rizzuto & Story played well defensively and Hanks especially in the first half rebounded the heck out of the ball; I thought Campbell (& I've been hard on him) is starting to play DEFENSE like he is capable and is more comfortable offensively because of it {or maybe it's reversed better O, better D, but he seems so much more relaxed the past two games--maybe coming off the bench is just what he/team needed.} With Clark in foul trouble and [god forbid]  Brooks single handledly tried to give the game away, Miller even though he only played sparingly, brought the ball up court on successive possessions and calmed things down. If the bench can contribute in small ways and rest the staters and hold the fort when players in foul trouble, I think we will be ok.

Now I need some expert help here {I know there is really NO help for me.} My issue is the charge circle. Coach Abe's husband who is some sort of official official, explained the rule to me a number of years back. As he explained it, a charge cannot be called in the circle; BUT if the offensive player commits a player control foul (a charge) and the defensive player is properly planted but in the circle, the proper call is NO CALL. The announcer yesterday (who as 99 said, was as bad as there is) repeatedly said that it was "automatically" a foul on the defense in the circle. UA would have been up by 20 at he half, if the number of charges we took would have been called as NO CALL and hence no foul shots. I know the charge call is wrong probably ½ the time anyhow; but my question is, does anyone know has the charge arc rule changed? Is a legit charge but take-in the arc a NO CALL or is the defensive player "automatically " assessed  a foul even though he was in proper position albeit in the wrong spot?????

Edited January 1, 2019 by dslyank

[Clickclack]

12 hours ago, godanesgo99 said:

I've listened to some bad play by play guys before. Some major homers. This guy was terrible. I would have rather listened to Joe Buck and Tim McVarver do the game...

I muted him and didn't turn it back on... Guy was horrendous. 

[DanesRGood]

17 hours ago, godanesgo99 said:

I've listened to some bad play by play guys before. Some major homers. This guy was terrible. I would have rather listened to Joe Buck and Tim McVarver do the game...

Hi Vince McMahon style "GOOOOOD" for made shots was the worst. Even for some foul shots he did it.  He was terrible.

[UAalum72]

6 hours ago, dslyank said:

Now I need some expert help here {I know there is really NO help for me.} My issue is the charge circle. Coach Abe's husband who is some sort of official official, explained the rule to me a number of years back. As he explained it, a charge cannot be called in the circle; BUT if the offensive player commits a player control foul (a charge) and the defensive player is properly planted but in the circle, the proper call is NO CALL. The announcer yesterday (who as 99 said, was as bad as there is) repeatedly said that it was "automatically" a foul on the defense in the circle. UA would have been up by 20 at he half, if the number of charges we took would have been called as NO CALL and hence no foul shots. I know the charge call is wrong probably ½ the time anyhow; but my question is, does anyone know has the charge arc rule changed? Is a legit charge but take-in the arc a NO CALL or is the defensive player "automatically " assessed  a foul even though he was in proper position albeit in the wrong spot?????

From a 2011Sporting News interview with NBA ref Joe Forte:

1. Which defender does this rule apply to?

Forte: “Understand, this applies only to the secondary defender. The primary defender is defined as facing the player with the ball, and there’s no required distance — I can be 30 feet from you, but if there’s no one in front of us, I am the primary defender, as long as there is a clear path. The secondary defender is defined as picking up the offensive player.”

2. Does the offensive player have immunity?

Forte: “If the secondary defender is in the (arc) and contact occurs, it could be a blocking foul, it could be an offensive foul or it could be incidental contact. If the secondary defender comes over and is in the restricted area, there are exceptions to the rule. If the offensive player wipes him out with the arm — wipeout is the extension of the arm from the elbow to the wrist — or if I drive and unnaturally use my knee to push him out or my foot to kick him, offensive foul. Now, we know when an offensive player drives to the basket, the natural move is to put their knee up; that is not an offensive foul. The offensive foul comes when I deliberately use it unnaturally.”

3. How does this apply on a fast break?

Forte: “As we know, a fast break is when the defense is outnumbered, a 2-on-1 or 3-on-2. On the fast break, all defenders are considered secondary defenders. If he’s in the restricted area and there’s contact, it’ll be a block (save for the exceptions). If he’s outside the restricted area and there’s contact, it’s a normal basketball play — could be a block, could be an offensive foul.

[UAalum72]

I don’t know if that explanation helped.

The announcer was a homer, but I’ve heard plenty worse, even in so-called professional major league jobs.

[dslyank]

16 hours ago, UAalum72 said:

it could be a blocking foul, it could be an offensive foul or it could be incidental contact.

Could this be any more vague? Seems to say a legit charge taken in the arc becomes a defensive foul unless the charger does something deliberate? But this only applies on a fast breaks;  does not really address the issue of an in the arc charge in the ½ court set which was pretty much the case on all the calls Monday. Also, does not really agree with how coach Abe's husband explained it to me. He said if you take a charge properly in the arc feat planted, etc, etc. it cannot be called a charge and CANNOT be called a defensive foul, hence NO CALL.  

Anyhow, thanks for your input, does not really clear anything up for me and from how it has been called since its implementation, I do not think most officials understand the rule either. Whoever on the ncaa rules committee wrote this and those in charge of it communications and implementation should be shot for treason or minimally have whatever degree/degrees they have should be revoked. Rules should be clear and understandable. You do not have to agree with a rule; but it should not be so vague as to make it impossible to understand and nearly impossible to enforce properly. 

[UAalum72]

Yeah, I don’t know they can’t say “If the defender is inside the circle, the offensive player will not be called for a charge for normal basketball movements; all other plays will be called as they would be anywhere else on the court.”