Articles on UB athletics

[DaneMan]

I made a mistake with Minnesota-Duluth.

 

What about Santa Clara and women's soccer?

[UAalum72]

What about Santa Clara and women's soccer?

What about 'em?

 

Would one person in a hundred know whatever it is you think I should know about them? I know I don't.

 

I'll even give you Pepperdine, but they, Hawaii, and the Cal States have certain weather advantages that Albany can't match, as well as a much deeper in-state pool of athletes.

 

 

In the meantime, over 140 wrestling programs have been dropped in the last twenty years.

[McFan]

I agree with those that don't want to cut programs. Participation and opportunity is still important. The cutting of the wrestling program was a disaster. That is a sport we may have been able to compete.

 

Sorry to the football fans, but Albany will never be a major D-1 football power or even true mid-level. The funding, the weather, the community support, and the location make it nearly impossible. Football is a Southern sport and will continue to be so. It's huge news in this whole area when a player gets drafted and even when they get a D-1 scholarship. I have relatives in Atlanta and they have multiple NFL players from their high school, and pages of D-1 players. None of these guys is going to Albany over Georgia, Georgia Tech, or even South Florida or Georgia Southern. The Northern schools that are successful are tradition programs and even they are struggling (see N.D., Syracuse).

 

If $ is to be focused then basketball should be the program. Twelve scholarships and what 4 coaches as compared to football (what is the number of scholarships and coaches there?).

 

Many other programs can then be sustained at competitive level regionally and possibly national levels with much lower costs than football.

 

I too support athletics (very little) and would be hard pressed to continue if their were a number of teams cut.

[DaneMan]

72 - I could give you 20 names and you would refute each one with some reason. The point was to name schools that have done well in the fringe sports despite not partaking in a BCS conference or as an IVY League school. Yes, most people wouldn't recognize them, but those in sporting world recognize that achievement. Did you know that the men's and women's soccer programs were coached by the same man at the same time and he took both to a Final Four in the same year? The thing is these schools have an athletic program to brag about. While it may in sports that very few know they still have all produced Gold Medalists, National Champions, etc.

 

Now I don't know your background, so maybe you were a wrestler back in the day or your child was and you have resentment towards the cutting of the program. No offense but college wrestling is an expensive sport and also creates a ton of problems at the DI level. There has to be a nutrionist on staff to help the guys with all the eating problems they have due to their need of making weight. A trainer is needed to handle all the various injuries that occur. Lastly, most wrestling coaches aren't the nicest people nor the most outgoing when it comes to dealing with their athletes.

 

 

I hate to say it, but Division I athletics are a business. Yes, we all want the student-athletes to graduate and do well on the field, but the bottomline is that University Presidents and AD hate having to look of a book of red numbers each year. While I would be against cutting sports, sometimes its a necessity in order to make money. Is Albany football ever going to be a powerhouse? Probably not, but right now football and basketball are the sports that generate revenue so you do what it takes to make them better.

 

Think of it this way: Pepsi introduces new brands each year to further take over the market. Unfortunately, most new brands fail so production either stops or is curtailed so that the company can refocus on pushing Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, etc. Keeping Crystal Pepsi, Pepsi Blue, etc. are not sound financial choices so they have to go, despite the effect they will have on people's families.

 

Another point of interest is that you have to understand that the department's budget must be spread across 20 sports and there are no ifs, ands or buts. Mr. Voelker can't spend all the money on hoops and football because then he has to hear it from volleyball, track, softball etc regarding the promoting of two sports that haven't won an AE Championship. Also, he has to be smart on how he divides up the fringe sports money for the same exact reason. While some of us may believe that track and FH are two boring sports, you can't tell a coach that because in their eyes that sport is the most important. With fewer sports, more money can go to promoting the sports, providing the teams with the proper trainers to stave off injury, etc.

 

No one wants to see sports go by the wayside, but to make the jump to scholarship football, the money needs to come from somewhere and that either happens with a tuition increase or cutting of sports.

 

Lastly, this all comes back to student involvement. Yes the Rowdies are great, but at the same time there needs to be more students care about athletics and that comes from winning. Winning comes from providing the teams with the proper financial backing so that they can get the players and equipment they need to succeed. No one is going to Albany because they were the NEC Champions or made the NCAA Lacrosse Tournament the last three years, but I am sure application rates at Vermont are up the last few years thanks to Coppenrath and his crew.

[UAalum72]

No, what I wanted to know was what success in a fringe sport did for colleges that made them known to the public at large. Of course some can be successful at a fringe sport, but by definition that's at the fringes. You can brag about it, but who's going to care that you're bragging? What's going to get the school's name in a headline above the fold of Page 1?

 

I don't have any ax to grind, or resentment (other than wrestling was one of our MOST successful programs) but I wouldn't generalize that "most wrestling coaches aren't the nicest people ".

 

Like D2K3 you're mixing two points - cut sports to help the other minor sports, or cut sports to help football and basketball. Let me repeat what I wrote two posts earlier:

 

If you can't afford a sport, you have to cut it.

 

If you want to cut a minor sport to boost a headline sport, I wouldn't like it, but I could understand it.

 

Cutting one minor sport to boost another minor, I don't see the benefit.

 

As for football, no we're not going to be Division I-A. I'd be happy to be at a level with UMass, averaging 9,000-12,000. Considering that just a few years ago this area was averaging 10,000 for freakin' Arena League Football, I don't think that's totally unreasonable.

[Dane96]

McFan hasn't watched much DIAA football apparantly. Marshall (WV), Fordham, UNH (Semi's last year), Hofstra, Delaware, Lehigh, Colgate, Montana, actually, the entire BIG SKY, the OVC, and numerous other schools abover the Mason Dixon line have ruled the roost in IAA football over the years.

 

[McFan]

You are correct Dane96. But that partly proves my point. I am more of an NFL fan but if Hofstra was playing Delaware in my back yard I might not go if the weather wasn't perfect. Again, I am not a big college football fan but I think that is the case with a lot of people in this area.

 

I do lack knowledge in this area, but how many scholarships and coaches, or the real question, how much money does it take to run a program like a Hofstra? Is it a money maker for the school? Does anyone apply (non player) to Hoftsra because of their football program? Any real recoginition outside of diehard football fans with some connection to 1AA?

[UAalum72]

Most scholarship I-AA programs have expenses of $2-4 million. Albany is now around $600,000 per Government Reports.

 

Very few make money, but as FB coaches say, nobody asks if the English Department makes money either (I know, English is closer to a college's mission).

 

I-AA rarely gets national recognition (neither does half of I-A programs) but it can be a big part of the regional/local scene.

 

My worry is that you cut a few programs, then somebody argues that since nobody attends non-scholarship football you should drop that, and you look around and suddenly the program looks like $iena.

[McFan]

72- Thanks for the info. Do you think the football program would be more of a target with a $600M budget with current attendance or a $3MM budget with 5K fans? Is 5K fans a good target or should we expect more?

 

To answer my own question I guess that would mainly depend on student attendance. With the basketball program expected to do very well I think that would be a gauge on how things would be with a winning program.

 

In a perfect world I too would prefer more competitive football and no cutting of other programs. But as many have stated the $ rules.

[UAalum72]

I'd hope for 7-8 thousand on average, which would mean occasional crowds of over 10.

 

When they were designing the Pepsi (Knickerbocker) Arena a lot of people (including me) thought 15K was way too large, that about 8,000 was the right size. It quickly became clear that the larger seating capacity was correct and 8K much too small.

 

While I don't want to overhype it like Howard Schnellenberger at Florida Atlantic, I don't want to miss an opportunity because of Smallbany attitudes either. Football in front of more than parents, friends, and girlfriends is almost completely unknown in this area except for Arena Ball, and I think that shows there might be a market for it.

[Ruler]

The key to the crowds for football at Albany is simple! Bring in named opponents to a new stadium and beat their ass's with regularity and you will have 8k NO PROBLEM, probably 12K! Look at Montana (the weather sucks there in late fall...they get 25K, look at Delaware...25k no problem)Play Harvard, (Brown 2 years ago at Albany had 5K by itself, Fordham had 5K, SBU brings in 6K weekly and they suck!)

 

Maine and Hofstra average 10k.

 

No, Albany will never be strapping it up against Syracuse. The schools that were mentioned by McFan are 1A football powers and some students do enroll at Notre Dame because of their long tradition. But no one enrolls at Fordham because of their long tradition! Different level, different funding. Albany will never be Notre Dame, but they can certainly be Delaware!!!!!!!!!

[DaneMan]

The key to the crowds for football at Albany is simple! Bring in named opponents to a new stadium and beat their ass's with regularity and you will have 8k NO PROBLEM, probably 12K! Look at Montana (the weather sucks there in late fall...they get 25K, look at Delaware...25k no problem)Play Harvard, (Brown 2 years ago at Albany had 5K by itself, Fordham had 5K, SBU brings in 6K weekly and they suck!)

 

Maine and Hofstra average 10k.

 

Maybe we are looking at things differently, but when I hear name opponents I don't envision Montana, Harvard, etc. I see Penn State, Nebraska or maybe a DI school at the lower end of the spectrum. No offense, but very few people in the region know about Montana and its success. Albany is a melting pot of football fans and they aren't going to go to Bob Ford Field for a I-AA clash between Albany and Montana. At some point Albany will have to take its lumps at home via a big-named opponent. Hopefully the new stadium will result in a move to scholarship I-AA and some DI schools wanting to play there.

 

 

some students do enroll at Notre Dame because of their long tradition. But no one enrolls at Fordham because of their long tradition!

 

Um, you are greatly mistaken if you think some students enroll at ND because of tradition. I would be willing to bet that 75-85% of kids who apply and attend school there is because of football. In fact studies have shown that applications increase because of a winning season. This happens at every DI football and bball school. While you are right about Fordham, most of those kids apply because its an IVY and thus it has a long tradition itself.

[GODANESGO]

Just a note, while it isn't critical to your point, that Fordham isn't an Ivy League school. The Ivys are Columbia, Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Brown, Penn, Princeton, and Dartmouth.

 

Also, as kind of a combo of the past two points (while I didn't apply to it or even consider it), I see ND's "tradition" as its football...not being seperate. But I certainly realize that I may not be in the norm for that.

[Ruler]

I said kids enroll at ND BECAUSE of their long and storied tradition. NO ONE enrolls at Fordham because of their storied tradition.

 

I hate to tell you fans in the Capital District WOULD go see Albany vs Harvard, they already have in one sense(they came out for Brown and Fordham at crappy Universitry field)or Albany vs Georgia Southern, Yale etc. picture the lAA playoffs at "Ford Field" taking on James Madison Or Florida A&M or someone with some name recognition. Delaware of Montans or Maine would bring 15,000 with them.

 

Understand the lAA landscape ....they will turn out, they do all over the country, not just in the south! If Albany is playing Lehigh at the end of a 3-8 seaon at home in November you will get 3000. WE NEED TO ESTABLISH A WINNING TRADITION AT THE FULLY FUNDED LEVEL AND THEY WILL COME. If they come out to watch Siena play Marist in hoops they will surley spend a beautiful sat afternoon or evening in a new stadium watching us play Harvard!

[alum73]

I'm with Ruler on this one. I can appreciate the different levels of football and would love to see Lehigh or Montana in Albany. The level we're at now is a problem, because casual fans don't know thethe differences within 1AA. So when we get crushed by these powers, we just look bad.