Division IAA Football Stadium Capacities

[haggyland]

Median using the numbers in the link provided is 13419.

This measure more accurately accounts for the outliers....

[haggyland]

Average for new numbers of 15006. (You can see how some of the older, larger stadiums skew the numbers.)

[UA_MA_2000]

I know I'll take some heat for this but.......

 

You know guys it's apparent we're struggling for funds maybe we should build something that is 10-12K but expandable to 20K.

 

With the cost of full scholarship football (remember Title IX) and the building of a stadium coming at about the same time could be a bit much!!!!

 

We also have many other needs - Bleachers, storage by the new turf fields, a track, major renovations to SEFCU and improve softball and baseball facilities.

 

I hope I'm wrong but there is a ton of distance between the real and the ideal!!!!

 

Wasn't there a Golf Outing down state recently did UA raise "Big Money"?

 

If so they haven't even mentioned the event, I thought by now we would have atleast some pictures up on the UA site.

 

Have we found benefactors or is everything suppose to be paid by the state?

 

Patch: As lofty my dreams are, you're probably right about what we should realistically aim for in a stadium, especially given the other substantial costs involved in our athletic (including football) programs.

 

Moreover, and to further echo what Patch discussed above, I think college football is simply not as big a draw in the Northeast as it is for the rest of the country. I know posters, including myself, have discussed this in the past, but it would -- as I am forced to recognize -- take an awful lot for us to ever average 20,000+ fans a game. How often does Syracuse even fill up the Carrier Dome for tickets? I think they were selling football season tickets for $100, weren't they? Buffalo did draw 22,000-23,000 fans for the game a few weeks ago versus Baylor, but Buffalo is a lot bigger than UAlbany and has a larger metropolitan area to draw from than Albany.

 

*Notably, I just purchased tickets for the Buffalo vs. SU game around the 40-yard line, upper deck, so I imagine it could be rather quiet for that game.

[UA_MA_2000]

I love the post, great to see the enthusiasm. I also like the fact that UA students and alumni are seeing the university as what it is, a New York flagship... way over due.

 

I think Dane96 makes a good point. We need to meet today's goals, which is full scholly 1AA football. That should mean a 15k seat stadium. I agree with our new poster that we need to be able to expand to full FBS in the future. Both needs should be addressed, today's needs and the needs in 8 years from now (I'm being optimistic).

 

One note, for the posters who keep wanting to rule out FCS teams as a bench mark because they use "community stadiums", keep in mind this is suppose to be a community stadium. There isn't a stadium within 100 miles of the Capitol District.

 

As an aside, I think a Michie Stadium would be real nice

 

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/ConfUSA/Army/index.htm

 

I'm sure it was fully paid for by Uncle Sam. I don't recall hearing any complaints there and it's not even open to the community. Go Army!

 

Perhaps we could lobby for the displacement of Cohoes or Green Island, thereby creating room for a Hudson-waterfront football stadium?

[ATL_DANE]

College football isn't as popular in the northeast because we haven't had a horse in the race. What did we care if Cal was playing Florida. Give the people a reason to cheer and come to the game... they'll come.

 

I could have made the reverse argument about the south thirty years ago. NFL isn't popular in the south, yeah becuase they didn't have any teams. They all watched college. We're not much different than the folks who go to Penn State or Ohio State.

 

Give them a reason to cheer and they'll come.

[ATL_DANE]

I love the post, great to see the enthusiasm. I also like the fact that UA students and alumni are seeing the university as what it is, a New York flagship... way over due.

 

I think Dane96 makes a good point. We need to meet today's goals, which is full scholly 1AA football. That should mean a 15k seat stadium. I agree with our new poster that we need to be able to expand to full FBS in the future. Both needs should be addressed, today's needs and the needs in 8 years from now (I'm being optimistic).

 

One note, for the posters who keep wanting to rule out FCS teams as a bench mark because they use "community stadiums", keep in mind this is suppose to be a community stadium. There isn't a stadium within 100 miles of the Capitol District.

 

As an aside, I think a Michie Stadium would be real nice

 

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/ConfUSA/Army/index.htm

 

I'm sure it was fully paid for by Uncle Sam. I don't recall hearing any complaints there and it's not even open to the community. Go Army!

 

Perhaps we could lobby for the displacement of Cohoes or Green Island, thereby creating room for a Hudson-waterfront football stadium?

 

I was partially speaking in jest. HOWEVER, I do think a stadium expandable to 30k isn't unreasonable. When the flagship of New York is playing in a facility less than Grady High School, that's a problem. I think New York can provide facilities to compete with the Toldedo or Western Michigan's of the world. Enough with the sarcarsm.

[reeder]

A few thoughts:

1. The charts need to show attendance and not capacity

2. The focus should be on non Ivy League teams in the Northeast - Hofstra, Northeastern...

4. IMO, 15k to 20k is way too many seats especially with a $60 million price tag

5. I say 8k to 10k seats is more than sufficient - it can be expanded if there is appropriate demand at a later time.

6. Take some of the money and add scholarships and marketing so that the seats are filled.

 

IMO, the University loses some credibility by floating $62 million and 15k seats. I don't know that they can possibly justify that. Yes there may be some community events there but I think the city just renovated Bleeker stadium for HS football and one of the TU articles quoted someone as saying that there is no HS demand for a 10k seat stadium.

[UA_MA_2000]

I love the post, great to see the enthusiasm. I also like the fact that UA students and alumni are seeing the university as what it is, a New York flagship... way over due.

 

I think Dane96 makes a good point. We need to meet today's goals, which is full scholly 1AA football. That should mean a 15k seat stadium. I agree with our new poster that we need to be able to expand to full FBS in the future. Both needs should be addressed, today's needs and the needs in 8 years from now (I'm being optimistic).

 

One note, for the posters who keep wanting to rule out FCS teams as a bench mark because they use "community stadiums", keep in mind this is suppose to be a community stadium. There isn't a stadium within 100 miles of the Capitol District.

 

As an aside, I think a Michie Stadium would be real nice

 

http://football.ballparks.com/NCAA/ConfUSA/Army/index.htm

 

I'm sure it was fully paid for by Uncle Sam. I don't recall hearing any complaints there and it's not even open to the community. Go Army!

 

Perhaps we could lobby for the displacement of Cohoes or Green Island, thereby creating room for a Hudson-waterfront football stadium?

 

I was partially speaking in jest. HOWEVER, I do think a stadium expandable to 30k isn't unreasonable. When the flagship of New York is playing in a facility less than Grady High School, that's a problem. I think New York can provide facilities to compete with the Toldedo or Western Michigan's of the world. Enough with the sarcarsm.

 

I agree with you about the 30,000-seat stadium...it would be nice to have that option should the need arise. And you're right about having us be competitive with certain (or all) MAC teams (for example). As for a stadium like Army's stadium, I was being serious, though not realistic, about displacing parts of Cohoes or Green Island (or South Troy for that matter).

[uofalbany]

Some of you are missing the point.

 

Your focus seems to be on the averages I state. They represent only stadiums included.

 

I did not say that they represented all of I-AA football facilities. I know some are Ivy League stadiums with large capacities. For my purpose, it made no difference if those stadiums would skew the average.

 

I intentionally chose stadiums with high seating capacities, regardless if they were on campus or municipal. And again, I know some of these stadiums CAPACITIES are different from actual SEATS.

 

Try to focus on the point.

 

My intention was to show there are stadiums used in Division I AA that have large capacities, period. And if we are to build a stadium, it's a much better idea to aim BIGGER, constructing one comparable to large capacity stadiums currently used in Division 1-AA.

 

It is stated that University field has a capacity of 10,000. How many seats are there now?

I've heard recently that the proposal is revised to 10,000-15000 seats.

How much sense would it be to build a stadium with 10,000 seats?

[ATL_DANE]

A few thoughts:

1. The charts need to show attendance and not capacity

2. The focus should be on non Ivy League teams in the Northeast - Hofstra, Northeastern...

4. IMO, 15k to 20k is way too many seats especially with a $60 million price tag

5. I say 8k to 10k seats is more than sufficient - it can be expanded if there is appropriate demand at a later time.

6. Take some of the money and add scholarships and marketing so that the seats are filled.

 

IMO, the University loses some credibility by floating $62 million and 15k seats. I don't know that they can possibly justify that. Yes there may be some community events there but I think the city just renovated Bleeker stadium for HS football and one of the TU articles quoted someone as saying that there is no HS demand for a 10k seat stadium.

 

I think most of your points are valid until you say our bench mark is private schools. That is not our peer group. The neighboring states are our peer group. As a reminder, that means New Jersey, Conn, Mass, VT and Penn. VT checked out a long time ago, so they're out. That leaves us with bench marks like UB, UMass, UConn, Rutgers, Penn State. I didn't make up our neighbors, it's just where we are. Some people think New York is north of Rhode Island and south of Vermont. Those are not our primary competitors. SUNY isn't some small time university that should be playing "St. fill in the blank"

[UA_MA_2000]

A few thoughts:

1. The charts need to show attendance and not capacity

2. The focus should be on non Ivy League teams in the Northeast - Hofstra, Northeastern...

4. IMO, 15k to 20k is way too many seats especially with a $60 million price tag

5. I say 8k to 10k seats is more than sufficient - it can be expanded if there is appropriate demand at a later time.

6. Take some of the money and add scholarships and marketing so that the seats are filled.

 

IMO, the University loses some credibility by floating $62 million and 15k seats. I don't know that they can possibly justify that. Yes there may be some community events there but I think the city just renovated Bleeker stadium for HS football and one of the TU articles quoted someone as saying that there is no HS demand for a 10k seat stadium.

 

In my view, we can absolutely put 10,000-15,000 people in a new stadium for every game (and within the first 1-3 years). We averaged around 10-12K for Firebirds' games 10 years ago (for a less popular version of football and without the aid of students on a campus or alumni in the area), and given the interest for high school games in this area, I think that we can develop (rather quickly) interest for the sole Division I football program in this area. Take all the people who go to high school games on Friday night and just get a fraction of those people to come to our games (simply as football fans and parents of the students who want to further their football playing days in college), as well as alumni, students, and general football fans in this area.

 

Also, I think it should be stated that if we have a real stadium (with concessions, merchandise, etc.), you're going to get a lot more people interested in actually going to the games!

 

In sum, I guess I simply take issue with the 8,000-seat figure, as it's my view that that capacity is simply too small. But, of course, there is limited money, so we'll take what we can get ... .

 

I really think the discussion needs to start at 10,000 seats (I would prefer 15,000) for, in part, the foregoing reasons.

[reeder]

Average attendance for many of the FCS schools in the Northeast:

Hofstra - 5101

Cornell - 5008

Columbia - 4612

Stony Brook - 4336

Fordham - 3723

Rhode Island - 3171

Maine - 5208

Dartmouth - 5597

Holy Cross - 5742

New Hampshire - 8141

Northeastern - 3256

Colgate - 3493

UMass - 11663

Albany - 3115

 

With this data, I don't know how the University can sell 15k + seats.

[UA_MA_2000]

A few thoughts:

1. The charts need to show attendance and not capacity

2. The focus should be on non Ivy League teams in the Northeast - Hofstra, Northeastern...

4. IMO, 15k to 20k is way too many seats especially with a $60 million price tag

5. I say 8k to 10k seats is more than sufficient - it can be expanded if there is appropriate demand at a later time.

6. Take some of the money and add scholarships and marketing so that the seats are filled.

 

IMO, the University loses some credibility by floating $62 million and 15k seats. I don't know that they can possibly justify that. Yes there may be some community events there but I think the city just renovated Bleeker stadium for HS football and one of the TU articles quoted someone as saying that there is no HS demand for a 10k seat stadium.

 

I think most of your points are valid until you say our bench mark is private schools. That is not our peer group. The neighboring states are our peer group. As a reminder, that means New Jersey, Conn, Mass, VT and Penn. VT checked out a long time ago, so they're out. That leaves us with bench marks like UB, UMass, UConn, Rutgers, Penn State. I didn't make up our neighbors, it's just where we are. Some people think New York is north of Rhode Island and south of Vermont. Those are not our primary competitors. SUNY isn't some small time university that should be playing "St. fill in the blank"

 

"SUNY isn't some small time university that should be playing 'St. fill in the blank'"

 

Setting aside whatever the current reality may be for UAlbany and our competitive base, AMEN to your above statement!

 

*(except for our rivalry against LCC -- I enjoy beating them in most sports)

[Dane96]

UofAlbany, you are using circular reasoning and do not help the cause by doing so and, you are not alone in thiis regard, you do not have a clear understanding of what UA is asking for.

 

First, by picking the largest stadiums you ARE skewing numbers.

 

Second, Albany capacity is actually 4500 fannies in the seats. 10,000 is fire code...like many of these stadiums.

 

Third, your data is OUTDATED, as is some on Pete's Poll (e.g. Dartmouth is about 12k now). Outdated data cannot support an argument.

 

Fourth, outside of Princeton, to use the Ivy's is just silly-- They were built nearly 80 years ago...different era.

 

Fifth, while the you simply say "i know they are municipal" when talking about community stadiums, you fail to point out that NONE of those were built with STATE funds. Hey, if Albany wants to build a 30k seat stadium...go right ahead. Not going to happen...EVER. The State does not owe Albany (the City) a stadium either.

 

Sixth, your use of LARGE stadiums to show capacity is like me telling you "Hey, you are going to make 100k...because alot of salespeople do." What I am not telling you is that only 2% of our ENTIRE population makes 100k. You are taking the rather FEW stadiums with large numbers, again...it is 11 Stadiums out of 121, when the MAJORITY of stadiums hover around 15k...and these stadiums are in FOOTBALL RICH AREAS!

 

Seventh, the proposal was ALWAYS for 10-15k seats...ALWAYS! Believe me on this when I say I have seen the proposal with my own two eyes. Furthermore, we have ALWAYS AIMED HIGH.

 

This stadium from the get was 10-15k with an expansion capability to 25k seats. Not sure what you mean by it, but UA is "AIMING HIGH."

 

Finally, the 62mm isnt just for a stadium-- The stadium is 32mm, and the expansion to the RACC (much like Conte Forum and Alumni Stadium at BC-- we used the same architects, Sazaki) and added buildings is going to be another 30, including the finishing of the lax fields.

 

As someone who worked in high level State govt in two states, I can tell you that we have to ASK HIGH...with the realistic expectation that we get about 3/4 of that. The rest...we can figure out and work with. If we got 2mm for the RACC naming...we can almost certainly expect 5mm for the stadium...because of the MULTIPLE USES it will get.

 

My issue here is...I GOT THE POINT...but your point isnt anything other than what UA's point has ALWAYS been.

 

Again, sending skewed numbers to polished politicos does not help our cause. It will end up in the garbage, unfortunately.

 

Not saying your heart isnt in the right place...IT IS...but circular reasoning cannot be used in a political fight such as this.

[Dane96]

Average attendance for many of the FCS schools in the Northeast:

Hofstra - 5101

Cornell - 5008

Columbia - 4612

Stony Brook - 4336

Fordham - 3723

Rhode Island - 3171

Maine - 5208

Dartmouth - 5597

Holy Cross - 5742

New Hampshire - 8141

Northeastern - 3256

Colgate - 3493

UMass - 11663

Albany - 3115

 

With this data, I don't know how the University can sell 15k + seats.

 

Current stadium sucks...we are in a different community than those schools...and people are craving for big time sports in the area. We are more akin to UMASS....then to others. I would bet $ to donuts that UA averages 10k min over the first 5 years-- Conservatively. Ford's contacts will get UD, Montana, etc. to show up...and fans want to see that. We get 3-4k with a crap field in cold weather....with $ienaty teams. We will triple that...just like in hoops.