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I don't think there is a single poster here who thinks this is an equatable deal. In the business world, contract negotiations are about leverage. If we were to put a gun to their head and say.....SPLIT IT DOWN THE MIDDLE...they would walk and the game would be over. If people feel so strongly about being screwed then simply don't go, if the attendance drops way down the game will be canceled and we can all go our separate ways.

 

I think that would be a shame but thats just my opinion.

 

Nobody has explained to me satisfactorily yet why Siena has such great leverage over us in basketball. Do you really think the series would be in jeopardy if UA became the home team every other year? If we split everything down the middle, do you honestly think Siena would walk away from the game when they would stand to lose the revenue from 6,500 ticket sales? If that is the case, then they are worse business managers than I give them credit for. At least they wouldn't have to put out much money for garbage bags.

 

If that is the case, then why do we continue to play home-and-away series with Siena in all other sports when UA is far superior to Siena?

Edited by olddog71
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I have a serious question. Can someone explain to me why Siena fans are constantly complaining about their AD, Mr. D"Argenio? As an outsider, it lokks to me that he has done a superb job for them in hiring a coach who changed their fortunes around, negotiating a contract that kept the coach in place following a season in which the basketball world took notice and now in keeping a rivalry game in place that generates over a quarter million dollar in ticket sales, not including concessions, parking, etc by giving up $10,000.00. Mr. D'Argenio has had an Executive of the Year type season.

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I don't think there is a single poster here who thinks this is an equatable deal. In the business world, contract negotiations are about leverage. If we were to put a gun to their head and say.....SPLIT IT DOWN THE MIDDLE...they would walk and the game would be over. If people feel so strongly about being screwed then simply don't go, if the attendance drops way down the game will be canceled and we can all go our separate ways.

 

I think that would be a shame but thats just my opinion.

 

Nobody has explained to me satisfactorily yet why Siena has such great leverage over us in basketball. Do you really think the series would be in jeopardy if UA became the home team every other year? If we split everything down the middle, do you honestly think Siena would walk away from the game when they would stand to lose the revenue from 6,500 ticket sales? If that is the case, then they are worse business managers than I give them credit for. At least they wouldn't have to put out much money for garbage bags.

 

If that is the case, then why do we continue to play home-and-away series with Siena in all other sports when UA is far superior to Siena?

 

olddog,

 

You and I have had this discussion via PM, and I'm sure you know that I respect your opinion immensely. I only ask you to do one thing for me....put yourself in Siena's position, would you voluntarily give the agreement that so obviously favors you? Spin it around.....if we were the program with 30 years of D1 tradition, double the average home game attendance, played our games at the TUC and owned a 6 out of 7 W-L record. Would we give up the farm?

 

I'm not happy about this deal, the terms do NOT satisfy me, we are NOT even close to equity and I can't find fault in really any of your reasons. For selfish reasons, I don't want to let this game go by the waste side. I don't want to end the series having lost 6 out of 7.....I don't want to end the series when it looks like we couldn't cut it so we slinked away. Holding a gun to their head and saying....split it or we walk will get the thing canceled. The equity in basketball will come, but it will take time as they aren't going to just give it up. If it doesn't come then the game won't continue.

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A poster by the name of Boogie on the Siena board is reporting that Wyland on two occasions has stated that UA gets a home game in the second year of this contract. Knowing Wyland, who knows if it's true but perhaps we should find out if there is any truth to it.

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[olddog,

 

You and I have had this discussion via PM, and I'm sure you know that I respect your opinion immensely. I only ask you to do one thing for me....put yourself in Siena's position, would you voluntarily give the agreement that so obviously favors you? Spin it around.....if we were the program with 30 years of D1 tradition, double the average home game attendance, played our games at the TUC and owned a 6 out of 7 W-L record. Would we give up the farm?

 

I'm not happy about this deal, the terms do NOT satisfy me, we are NOT even close to equity and I can't find fault in really any of your reasons. For selfish reasons, I don't want to let this game go by the waste side. I don't want to end the series having lost 6 out of 7.....I don't want to end the series when it looks like we couldn't cut it so we slinked away. Holding a gun to their head and saying....split it or we walk will get the thing canceled. The equity in basketball will come, but it will take time as they aren't going to just give it up. If it doesn't come then the game won't continue.

 

bosiydid,

 

You and I agree on one issue - the game needs to be continued.

 

You still have not convinced me that Siena has that much leverage over us. Let me address some of your points.

 

I could care not less if Siena has more Division I experience than us. In all other sports, their longevity has not helped them in competition vis-a-vis UA. Though we have less than 1/3 the longevity in Division I than they have, our teams are superior. Yet, we continue to schedule them in many other sports, and we continue to give them the same respect as we would any other Division I team with home-and-away series, and the ticket sales that accrue from those events. Yes, the revenue is not the same as from basketball, but the operative word here is "respect." Longevity is not a good argument for you.

 

Yes, Siena did get about twice as many fans to their games as we did to ours. Remember, for one thing, last year was a good year for their team, our team did not fare as well. The general trend over the last few years, however, does not support the fact that Siena will be able to maintain that ratio. If they have a bad season, their ticket receipts will decline. On the contrary, over the last decade, despite recent success, Siena's fanbase, despite their recent success, has been declining. Ours has grown exponentially. Fanbase size is less of an argument for me than it is for you.

 

Are you really serious to think that Siena would walk away from a game in which it has sold 6,500 tickets and shared expenses to put on the game?

By the way, I have not stated unequivocably that UA and Siena must split everything down the middle in order to continue the series. I only postulated that possibility as theory to illustrate true equity. I still believe that Siena would be foolish, however, to discontinue the series if they were [Note the use of the subjunctive mood here.] the home team every other year. For instance, as has been reported over on the Siena board, Roger Wyland is supposed to have said that UA will be the home team in the 2009 game. If that is the case, then the real agreement is far closer to what I would consider an equitable contract than what I believed yesterday afternoon and this morning.

 

I still believe that UA has far more leverage in this series than you give it credit for.

Edited by olddog71
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olddog,

 

You and I have had this discussion via PM, and I'm sure you know that I respect your opinion immensely. I only ask you to do one thing for me....put yourself in Siena's position, would you voluntarily give the agreement that so obviously favors you? Spin it around.....if we were the program with 30 years of D1 tradition, double the average home game attendance, played our games at the TUC and owned a 6 out of 7 W-L record. Would we give up the farm?

 

Well said bosiy... they will not be too flexible for the forseeable future. It's their homecourt and its the only place to have such a big crowd. They know it. They certainly don't want to displace their season ticket holders, god forbid. I don't think they have a choice but to displace them at their conference tourny, but for the rivalry game, they do have the choice and won't.

 

A few questions ( which may have been covered before ):

 

UAlbany has 2100 tickets.

1.Anyone remember how much UAlbany sold the tickets for last year?

2.Does UA charge STUDENTS for these tickets and at what price?

3.Our bottom line profit from this game is?

 

Siena and the arena have 11500+ tickets, assuming the same number of tix sell as last year.

Exactly how many tickets (or equivelant revenue) does siena get?

And how much does the arena get?

 

What does their leasing agreement with the arena look like?

Does siena make any $ from the food + beer stands, parking, or anything else, other than ticket sales, etc..... ?

 

 

And if UA gets a home game, then that changes things.

Edited by uofalbany
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uofalbany,

 

You have asked a lot of questions that need answers before anyone can definitively judge the new agreement.

 

Yes, just how are those other expenses and receipts shared. My iniitial feeling is that Siena gets far more of an advantage than UA gets, but I'm open to new information.

 

I object to your contention that Siena is in the rider's seat because it plays its home games there. Why should that give Siena a great advantage in the UA negotiations? Have you ever asked the question why UA is never considered the home team in the Siena series? UA has played some home games in the TUC. One of the five games in the series with Syracuse was played there. A couple UA games during our Division II years were played at the TUC.

 

Siena merely rents the facility when it has home games. Other sports teams play there, but they don't claim the arena as theirs, as some Siena fans do.

 

When Siena gets almost twice as many fans at the TUC for their home games as we do at SEFCU, why should Siena get 6-7 times the allotment of tickets for the UA-Siena game? Your rationale does not make sense to me.

Edited by olddog71
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olddog,

 

With all due respect, I'm not out to convince you of anything, I simply provided an explanation for my point of view regarding this matter. You obviously disagree and I can respect that. You are at liberty to think of this deal as you wish. You are also at liberty to vote with your wallet and not attend.

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olddog,

 

You and I have had this discussion via PM, and I'm sure you know that I respect your opinion immensely. I only ask you to do one thing for me....put yourself in Siena's position, would you voluntarily give the agreement that so obviously favors you? Spin it around.....if we were the program with 30 years of D1 tradition, double the average home game attendance, played our games at the TUC and owned a 6 out of 7 W-L record. Would we give up the farm?

 

Well said bosiy... they will not be too flexible for the forseeable future. It's their homecourt and its the only place to have such a big crowd. They know it. They certainly don't want to displace their season ticket holders, god forbid. I don't think they have a choice but to displace them at their conference tourny, but for the rivalry game, they do have the choice and won't.

 

A few questions ( which may have been covered before ):

 

UAlbany has 2100 tickets.

1.Anyone remember how much UAlbany sold the tickets for last year?

2.Does UA charge STUDENTS for these tickets and at what price?

3.Our bottom line profit from this game is?

 

Siena and the arena have 11500+ tickets, assuming the same number of tix sell as last year.

Exactly how many tickets (or equivelant revenue) does siena get?

And how much does the arena get?

 

What does their leasing agreement with the arena look like?

Does siena make any $ from the food + beer stands, parking, or anything else, other than ticket sales, etc..... ?

 

 

And if UA gets a home game, then that changes things.

 

If memory serves...

 

- UA sold their allotment of tickets at $20 a piece last season, same as the price charged by Siena/TUC

- If I'm not mistaken, we DO NOT shoulder any financial burden for putting on the event, although the TUC probably takes their cut from the tickets we sell. I could be wrong though.

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If by 'be the home team' means Albany wears white/gold unis and nothing else, then BFD. That means nothing to me.

 

Wyland said....we get the scoreboard to say we are the home team, we get to wear the home uniforms and we get the home locker room. NO BIG WOOP!

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If by 'be the home team' means Albany wears white/gold unis and nothing else, then BFD. That means nothing to me.

 

Wyland said....we get the scoreboard to say we are the home team, we get to wear the home uniforms and we get the home locker room. NO BIG WOOP!

 

Actually, I'm pleased to hear about this much progress.

 

Now, if we could just get Siena to desist from playing that overhyped laser team presentation, that would be even better.

 

If Mr. Wyland is speaking the truth.

Edited by olddog71
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