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UB Lobbying


ATL_DANE
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A look at UB's wikipedia page will give one a quick idea why UB is on the path towards NY's flagship school in that, inter alia, it has several "professional schools," which is something UAlbany horribly lacks (which is also why I have been advocating for a Union University and UAlbany merger for quite some time):

State University of New York at Buffalo, commonly known as the University at Buffalo or UB, is a public research university which has multiple campuses located in Buffalo and Amherst, New York, USA. Offering 84 bachelor's, 184 master's and 78 doctoral degrees, it is the largest of the four comprehensive university centers within the State University of New York (SUNY) system.[6] From its inception in 1846 until 1962, the private school was known as the University of Buffalo. Once it became a state university, the name was changed, but many alumni still refer to it by the former name.

 

According to the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education, the University at Buffalo is a Research University with Very High Research Activity (RU/VH). Buffalo was elected to the Association of American Universities in 1989. UB's alumni and faculty have produced a U.S. President, astronauts, Nobel laureates, Pulitzer Prize winners, and other notable individuals in their fields. The University houses the largest state-operated medical school and features the only state law school,[7] architecture and urban planning school, and pharmacy school in the state of New York.

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I agree with UA_MA...we have no one to blame but ourselves. How many years did we spend looking for a prez? How much $$$$$$$$$ did we spend? In the end we changed the title of the guy that was already in place. Complete and utter INCOMPETENCE that still makes me very angry when I think about it.

 

Put the blame where it belongs.... It's time WE (community, students, alums) lift ourselves by the boot straps and demand better of people running this institution instead of continually harping on how we are being left behind.

 

Quite frankly, I wish we had a the leadership team they have, the clear vision they have, the clear goals they seem to have etc. What are our goals, what is our vision? Take a look at this, do we have something comparable on our site? They have a freaking progress reports and progress charts, physical plan etc. We've been trying to sell the need for construction of a sport complex but we don't have ANYTHING (an outdated 3 page .PDF doesn't count) on our web site about it. You'd think that in the 5 years that they've been planning this thing they would at least put a PICTURE of something somewhere, forget a picture/rendering, maybe they could mention the project somewhere, how many people know we are "trying" to build something.

 

Good for BU, that area of the state needs all the help it can get! :angry: The way I see it we can spend our energy bashing the other schools or we can look at ourselves and ask....what are we doing? In the past, I've gotten angry about this perception that we are getting left behind, recently I've started to see things in a different light. What are we doing to help ourselves?

Edited by bosiydid
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I agree with UA_MA...we have no one to blame but ourselves. How many years did we spend looking for a prez? How much $$$$$$$$$ did we spend? In the end we changed the title of the guy that was already in place. Complete and utter INCOMPETENCE that still makes me very angry when I think about it.

 

Put the blame where it belongs.... It's time WE (community, students, alums) lift ourselves by the boot straps and demand better of people running this institution instead of continually harping on how we are being left behind.

 

This is what I was trying to say, but Boisy said it better than I; well put! Time to start thinking big and planning. Forget the football stadium, I want a fregin' Deathstar! :ninja:

Edited by UA_MA_2000
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With regard to this quote: "UC system has 10 campuses, all of which are better than SUNY Buffalo," that's a load of Siena. I'll give you UCLA and Berkley, but you're going to have to argue with me for each of the 8 schools after that insofar as you claim that those schools are better than Buffalo. I know the above post was just a statement "from the hip," but still, that the UC system has 10 schools better than Buffalo---you will have to present a heck of an argument to persuade me on this one, because I don't think that the above statement can be supported with ease.

 

Moreover, there are not 10 UC schools better than UAlbany! And Buffalo rates higher than Albany in the US News and World "Mis-Reports."

 

The basic point of the above post I agree with, of course, and that is that there is plenty of room for several high quality academic SUNY Centers.

 

Remember, Buffalo was a very respected college before SUNY came along and bought the school up, and it's status as a private school--and its endowment--is why Buffalo has so much money to pursue a 2020 plan now. Buffalo's endowment crushes Bingo, UA, and Stonybrook, combined, if I'm not mistaken!

 

In passing, I don't think anyone can fault Buffalo for doing what it's doing. Why should they act in our best interests? The City of Buffalo is a dump, and SUNY Buffalo is one of its few glimmers of hope. Don't blame Buffalo, blame ourselves for not doing enough to keep up wtih them.

 

US News Best Colleges 2009

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews....national-search

 

#21 UC Berkely

#25 UCLA

#35 UC San Diego

#44 UC Davis

#44 UC Irvine (tie)

#44 UC Santa Barbara (tie)

#89 UC Riverside

#96 UC Santa Cruz

#121 SUNY Buffalo

 

UC is a far better system. Buffalo isn't even the best SUNY. Buffalo should wait till it's the best SUNY school before it puts on this arogant tone. That may be a long wait because they'll never catch Bingo, ESF and Stony Brook for that fact.

Edited by SoCal_Dane
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Even if Buffalo had the money, they still wouldn't be competitive. Its all about recruiting. Top high school graduates, genius doctoral students and world-renowned researchers do not want to be in Buffalo. Objectively, the economy is terrible. The weather is insane. The taxes are through the roof. Why on god's green earth would they make that choice? Maybe the recruiting flyers can say "We're not Detroit"

Edited by SoCal_Dane
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Buffalo should wait till it's the best SUNY school before it puts on this arogant tone. That may be a long wait because they'll never catch Bingo, ESF and Stony Brook for that fact.

 

chill dude. no reason to begrudge another SUNY institution for looking out for themselves, especially when you are disparaging their alums in the process. I agree with everyone else on this board- we have no-one else to blame but ourselves. UAlbany should have been in front of this a long time ago.

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Even if Buffalo had the money, they still wouldn't be competitive. Its all about recruiting. Top high school graduates, genius doctoral students and world-renowned researchers do not want to be in Buffalo. Objectively, the economy is terrible. The weather is insane. The taxes are through the roof. Why on god's green earth would they make that choice? Maybe the recruiting flyers can say "We're not Detroit"

 

New York will never have a preeminent flagship campus? UB will never catch the SUNY schools you contend are better? UB's administration exhibits an arrogant tone? I'd say that does not reach the level of arrogance of someone who speaks in absolute terms about things over which they have no direct control.

 

The US News' methodologies have and will always be under fire, as UA_MA has alluded. I won't argue whether certain UC campuses are better than UB, but I do know UB and SBU are the peers of Berkeley, UCLA, Davis, Irvine, Santa Barbara, and San Diego, as members of the AAU, where it counts. And we reached this status 20 years ago, all while under the thumb of SUNY Central, facing challenges to growth and development other state schools do not face. For example, Michigan State receives the same land-use powers as municipalities, affording them many advantages over schools in New York. The UB2020 act addresses a few of these problems. You assert that it's pointless for UB to try all this since you think we won't be competitive. UB being a AAU member certainly means we compete just fine, even if UB2020 is not enacted.

 

Every pot-shot at Buffalo could be said of most upstate Metros. SmallBANY is so much different? Did you ever drive through Schenectady, Troy, South Albany, Arbor Hill? Upstate economies are all poor. But economies are just one measure of quality of life, of which many transplants to WNY speak glowingly of Buffalo after being here a while. Buffalo is not unlike many places in the America; It's a great place to live, if you have a decent job. We are the sunniest city in the Northeast, with more sunny days than Raleigh as well. The insane weather primarily hits the Southtowns of Buffalo. I live in the Northtowns and don't receive the crazy lake effect, nor do we receive the Nor'easters that swing through Oneonta and Albany, two Eastern NY places where I have lived. Seeing repeated assertions that people would be crazy to live in Buffalo due to misinformation and ignorance to the facts makes me think of people such as Dr John Simpson (formerly of UC Santa Barbara) and Dr Niraj Verma (formerly of USC), two men who thought it wise to leave Southern California to become the President, and Chair of the Department of Urban Planning, at UB, respectively.

 

As for the UB2020 legislation, I of course want passage and enactment for UB's benefit, but I would hope the laws would be applied to the other Centers at some point. I don't agree with the 5-year buffer UB is seeking. I think any school that has the political will, leadership and advantages of it's programs should strive for practical growth and improvement. I noticed Newsday posted an opinion piece on behalf of SBU on Wednesday: Don't Leave Stony Brook Behind....

 

The LaValle legislation listed in the op-ed piece are listed under S4132 (Establishes autonomy for the four state university centers at Albany, Binghamton, Buffalo and Stony Brook, has gone nowhere since April) and S4863 (Stony Brook university quality higher education and economic development act, Referred to Committee on 4/27/09). They can be searched for here: LaValle's Legisative Listing

Edited by UBBulls
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UB could have worked with its SUNY Centers. It choose not to do so. It choose to do what is in its best interest at the expense of the other SUNY Centers. The other SUNY Centers should remember this every time UB comes calling. UB is akin to the kid that says lets work together and then throws its friends under the bus as soon as they turn their back.

 

The other 3 SUNY Centers should have nothing to do with UB as long as their president follows these A-hole tactics.

 

Buffalo is a washed up rust belt town. It will never be a national university because no one wants to go to Buffalo. "Hey mom, I got into UCLA and SUNY Buffalo, which should I choose? The great weather, athletics, tradition and cool vibe of UCLA or a depressed old rust belt town? Tough choice!"

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Furthermore, I am not going to stop defending UAlbany and the other 2 SUNY Centers from SUNY Buffalo. People need to know what is going on. I will continue calling politicians and speaking out against this ridiculous disparity of treatment between SUNY Buffalo and the other 3 SUNY Centers. What is good enough for Buffalo is good enough for the other SUNY Centers. Buffalo is not some golden child. Far from it!

Edited by SoCal_Dane
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UB could have worked with its SUNY Centers. It choose not to do so. It choose to do what is in its best interest at the expense of the other SUNY Centers. The other SUNY Centers should remember this every time UB comes calling. UB is akin to the kid that says lets work together and then throws its friends under the bus as soon as they turn their back.

 

The other 3 SUNY Centers should have nothing to do with UB as long as their president follows these A-hole tactics.

 

Buffalo is a washed up rust belt town. It will never be a national university because no one wants to go to Buffalo. "Hey mom, I got into UCLA and SUNY Buffalo, which should I choose? The great weather, athletics, tradition and cool vibe of UCLA or a depressed old rust belt town? Tough choice!"

 

What exactly is a national university? I've never heard an official designation of US schools under that definition. Do you mean schools nationally recognized for their excellence in research and education? I think those are called AAU member institutions.

 

How often do the SUNY Centers work together? Under what circumstances would UB "come calling" for help from the other 3 schools? It seems UB and SBU are the only schools whose president's have worked together at different times. And in the last few days SBU's president has posted an appeal for inclusion, stating "I applaud the University of [at] Buffalo’s proposed State legislation that would create a pilot program to attain the goals that I and the other SUNY University Center Presidents all seek". That may happen, but to be safe Long Island's delegation proposes a separate bill for SBU that would do many of the things the UB bill seeks. Are you so sure you want to defend SBU as well, based on their intentions to not include UA and BU? BU has their online appeal to their community, but no strong legislative recourse. UAlbany?

 

As far as the "Some mythical student having to choose UCLA vs UB" comment:

 

In UB's 2008 enrollment data, of 28,192 students only 1301 (4.6%) are out-of-state from the US. 4 times as many are international students.

In SBU's 2008 enrollment data, of 23,994 students only 1354 (5.7%) are out-of-state from the US. 2 times as many are international students.

In UA'S 2008 enrollment data, of 18,202 students only 1004 (5.5%) are out-of-state from the US. A near equal number are international students.

 

Are you implying that UB and UCLA are in direct competition for many students? Seriously? Obviously not. They'd primarily look at other UC schools, not UB, UA, Rutgers, Iowa State, Missouri...wherever. I've met a few students from Cali, Arizona, and Texas, but the majority are from Great Lakes and Mid-Atlantic states. UB's plans to increase it's percentage of out-of-state closer to 10%, more in line with percentages seen at AAU members in the Mid-West. That's not unreasonable. And our professional programs attract the large number of students from Canada, East Asia, and South Asia.

 

You denigrate UB and Buffalo with generalized, un-researched, unsubstantiated, and sometimes laughable comments...it's desperate. You say you are defending the other centers, and that's awesome...but saying silly things about Buffalo is a reach.

 

BTW, check out the "Comparison 8" universities the UCLA Office of Analysis and Information Management uses to analyze faculty pay scales and student fees,

institutions widely "recognized as appropriate for purposes of comparison" in California government: Comparison 8

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Why is "UB Bulls" on a UAlbany website? I don't go onto whatever lousy website SUNY Buffalo has and discuss UAlbany plans. I could care less about SUNY Buffalo (outside of them throwing the other SUNY Centers under the bus).

 

Do you think UAlbany fans care about SUNY Buffalo? SUNY Buffalo is a mediocre state school in a rust belt town that has gone out of its way to alienate the other SUNY Centers. This whole UB2020 plan would be laughable if it didn't mean you doing a power and money grab that directly affects my alma mater.

 

Furthermore you can complain about "US News Best Colleges" all you want but most people accept it as a good gauge. SUNY Buffalo ranks terribly across the board. Don't take it out on me and don't bring it to this board. Take it up with US News, Kiplingers, and every other college ranking system that the great SUNY Buffalo is ranked at the bottom. I'm sure they all have it wrong! Harvard followed by SUNY Buffalo, right?

 

Accept your mediocrity status and stop trying to steal funding from my alma mater! Now back to SUNY Buffalo crap dot com.

Edited by SoCal_Dane
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The thing is, I don't have to go anywhere. I'm not trolling. I once went to every FB and men's BB game and cheered for UAlbany. And still do cheer from afar, in most contests. I've been a member for over 2 years, and have lurked long before that. My account was approved and I haven't once disrespected UAlbany in a post. I have only replied to posts which insult UB, or to ask general questions of the other posters. I defend UB and insert facts (such as the Comparison 8 link) to prove my points, not dig at UAlbany. I could dish out plenty of BS disrespecting UA, but why pointlessly troll to the ire of the majority of posters here who I find fair and reasonable? I wonder if you use the old SUNY Buffalo name in the same manor private school shills from RIT to Syracuse to Siena belittle any of the SUNY's. I respect the official use of UA or UAbany, and don't follow suite to cheaply belittle another school.

 

You're saying that I am taking out my anger of UB in the rankings of MAGAZINES on you? I wrote 1 sentence about US News rankings being under fire. I never gave a personal opinion, yet you say I complained, conjectured that I could think UB should be ranked right behind Havard? Where do you come up with this stuff? I'm trying to get something more from you than the same repeated insults to find out how someone who does not care about UB seems to think he can speak with certainty how it "sucks", "ranks terribly", is a place where "no one wants to go"? Or how he can say in a post, "News flash people. UA is New York’s UCLA or Cal." when UC Central itself finds UB to be the institution appropriate for institutional comparisons?

 

If being an AAU member, being classified as a peer-institution by the UC system itself, and having a Very High Research Activity ranking qualifies UB as mediocre, sure, we're mediocre.

 

 

Now, in a thought exercise off of what UA_MA has said about Union University:

 

If UA had developed somewhat similarly to UB, things would be quite different. The pre-SUNY Board of Regents suppressed the teachers colleges to protect private institutions. The then U of Buffalo was aided by this, strengthening it's professional programs for 100 years. If Union University were never created in 1873, Albany Medical College (1839), Albany Law (1851) and Albany College of Pharmacy (1881) could have been forced together during future periods of economic depression, such as 1893 or the Great Depression. If they then formed a common entity called something like a U of Albany, this entity could have possibly merged with the then New York State [Normal] College. A new institution, with professional schools, awash in endowment and a strong group of professional alum's, could have easily tweaked it's name to become New York State University the instant SUNY formed in 1948, before Harpur College came in, and long before UB became public. Hell, we could have had NYSU in Albany, BU or SBU or whatever as 2nd tiers, and private U of Buffalo looking similar to Duke or Baylor (Private schools with a medical component). We would have all been much happier under that scenario.

Edited by UBBulls
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As it is, your UB2020 has no chance of coming to fruition. At best it would be UB2030 or 2040. Furthermore, you'll never catch Bingo's undergraduate enrollment profile. For that matter, ESF, Genesseo and Stony Brook have better undergraduate profiles. Your grad schools are piss poor. The law school was ranked terribly. It's good SUNY is giving up on Buffalo's law school and starting new ones.

 

Look, SUNY Buffalo started this fight. Its their president that is claiming that the other SUNY Centers aren't worthy of equal funding. The other SUNY Centers aren't "flagships". The other SUNY Centers shouldn't have the funding or prestige. You, SUNY Buffalo President Simpson, started this fight. You President Simpson will make the system far worse by having each center fight for funding instead of working for a common good. I didn't start this feud. That egomaniac in Buffalo that thought his campus should somehow be a "golden child" despite it being ranked behind a half-dozen other SUNY campuses. Still it's the "best". We deserve hundreds of millions of dollars at the expense of the other SUNY Centers.

 

SUNY Buffalo is not special. SUNY Buffalo is no more a flagship than any other 3 SUNY Centers. President Simpson has delusions of grandeur that are hurting my alma mater.

 

I draw the line when his delusions hurt my alma mater.

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As of right this minute, where does the A.2020/S.2020 proposal stand in the NYS government?

 

Is it being debated? Or what?

 

 

 

Again, if anyone needs this info:

 

http://uofalbany.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-...eform-bill.html

 

 

At this time the bills are not "same as" because the text are different. S2020 is a "C" version and has been amended three times, while the Assembly version A2020 is only a "A" version and does not yet match the Senate's text.

 

Today it seems like the Senate moved their bill out of the Finance committee, and moved it to the Senate Calendar #487. After the bills are done in committees they move to the floor calendar. In order for the bill to be voted on it has to be on the Floor Calendars of each Legislative Body. A bill on the floor calendar does not ensure that it will be voted on any time soon or that it will be voted on this year. Often the last few days of session they will go through the whole floor calendar and do hundreds of bills, while during the year they often might vote on only a few pieces of legislation a day.

 

If you watch the floor calendar tomorrow we can see if in fact the Senate did move it to the Floor Calendar http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf...NQUERY=CALENDAR

 

Some people might already know this, but for those who are interested.....On debating a bill, the legislators meet daily in their Party Conferences to debate behind close doors any issues they have that they need to hash out, not in front of the cameras. Once they have enough votes to pass it, and the Majority conference wants to vote on it, it will then be brought up for a vote on the floor. At that time the Legislators can debate the bill (but if the issues were solved behind closed doors, their might not be a public debate and after the vote all legislators have a chance to explain their vote.) This is what the public sees, we don't see the debates that go on in the Party Conference Rooms.

 

As for watching the status of the Assembly bill, watch the Higher Ed Committee Agenda, but I would guess that the Assembly would Amend their bill to match the Senate before moving it through the Higher Ed Committee...but who knows... I would also think that after Higher Ed Committee the bill has to go the Assembly's Ways & Means Committee (Finance), and then to the Assembly Calendar.

 

As an FYI, the Chair of the Assembly Higher Ed Committee Deb Glick was the commencement speaker at the UAlbany undergrad graduation ceremony.

 

Updated yesterday - the Assembly B print is now conformed to the Senate C print. Assembly has referred the bill back to Higher Ed committee. http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A02020

 

Not on the higher ed committee agenda for today

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?sh=agen2&agenda=16

Edited by danefan
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