Jump to content



UAlbany Athletics- America East-
SOCIAL MEDIA: UAlbany Facebook- UAlbany Instagram- UAlbany Twitter- UAlbany Blog-
MEDIA: Albany Student Press- America East TV- ESPN3- Schenectady Gazette- The Team 104.5 ESPN Radio- The Team 104.5 ESPN Radio Archive interviews- Times Union College Sports- Times Union Sports- WCDB- WOFX 980-
FALL SPORTS LINKS: CAA Football-
WINTER SPORTS LINKS: College Insider- Pomeroy Ratings- Real TimeRPI-
SPRING SPORTS LINKS: Inside Lacrosse- Lax Power Backup Stick-
OTHER FORUMS: America East Forum- Any Given Saturday Forum- Championship Subdivision forum(1-AA Discussion) The Hen House - Siena Forum- Stony Brook Forum- Vermont Forum

UB Lobbying


ATL_DANE

Recommended Posts

I never expect any of you to ever support UB, so saying you will fight us is not a shock. We are different schools and we compete. This is a debate which has been very good so long as it stays respectful. I've been countering assertions, facts and opinions, and trying to answer questions asked of me. I've been asking questions as well, but who has tried to answer them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 129
  • Created
  • Last Reply
In their rush to secure the "flagship" designation they left behind their buddy SB, who just like them were pimping themselves all over the state as one of the two "flagship" campuses. I wonder how SB feels right about now.

Based upon the following, they don't seem to be worried at all, and are doing their own thing just as UB has chosen to do:

 

"With the common goal of making Stony Brook a flagship university and taking the school to the next level academically, speakers at the conference explored topics ranging from the university's successful past to its encouraging future.

 

A point made by various speakers throughout the press conference was a desire for Stony Brook to officially be named a flagship school in the SUNY system.

Before former Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s resignation in March 2008, he had been said to be considering naming Stony Brook and the University at Buffalo to be system flagships. After his resignation, the idea was seemingly scrapped, as it has not been taken up by Gov. Paterson.

 

"We consider ourselves to be the flagship of the [sUNY] system," said Richard T. Nasti, Chair of the Presidential Search Committee.

 

As a flagship school Stony Brook would be recognized as a statewide center of higher learning, and would conceivably gain more funding and recognition.

Nasti and Stanley made several hints during their speeches that they would like the SUNY Chancellor-Elect Nancy Zimpher to bestow this distinction upon Stony Brook.

 

The AAU (Association of American Universities) was also a topic of discussion at the panel. It is a group of the leading 62 research universities in the United States and Canada. In 2001, Stony Brook University officially became a part of the AAU. At the press conference, it was discussed how this has bolstered Stony Brook’s research efforts, which Stanley will also look to do, he said."

 

Stony Brook President Confirmed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure SBU wants it. "Flagship" = $$$

 

They have just been a lot less obnoxious about it.

 

That's why you want this title. BU and UA would be pushed to perennial second class status. It just kills me that SUNY Buffalo makes this argument for this special status when they have nothing going for them except their size, which isn't that much bigger the others. I'm a proud and successful UA grad but I think BU has been lighting it up out there. I can say it because it's true. SUNY Buffalo has nothing but an arrogant attitude.

 

SUNY Buffalo, you need to learn a life lesson, a business lesson, and a general lesson. You get ahead by working with others. You get ahead by building relationships. Power grabs or doing "win-lose" deals will never work. You have made the same arguments over and over. You are not deserving of additional $$$. UA and BU are not going to help you F us over.

 

It is very disingenuous for you to come here and say "you should help us". "Oh but we deserve to get most of the money"

 

I want to fly to Buffalo just so I can urinate on President Simpson's home.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to fly to Buffalo just so I can urinate on President Simpson's home.

 

Money well spent! :rolleyes:

 

It's a bit entertaining to watch UB and SBU I guess to this day running around proclaiming themselves to be "flagship" and wanting C Zimpher to bestow the title on them. Didn't she already tell these idiots that she is unwilling to separate the four?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always assumed that the 4 "University Centers" were the Flagship campuses. We have geographical flagships. All the centers are still going to compete for funds and additional flexibility, and I'm OK with that. I don't want to complain about other centers trying to get what they can, I just want to make sure UAlbany's administration is making their best case for receiving adequate resources.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always assumed that the 4 "University Centers" were the Flagship campuses. We have geographical flagships. All the centers are still going to compete for funds and additional flexibility, and I'm OK with that. I don't want to complain about other centers trying to get what they can, I just want to make sure UAlbany's administration is making their best case for receiving adequate resources.

 

alum,

 

While that might be clear to all of us here, at least that's the way I've always understood it. Why are the two schools in questions pushing so hard for the titled to be bestowed on them? It appears they are trying like hell to cut someone out of the equation thus giving themselves a lions share of state funding and support.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It just kills me that SUNY Buffalo makes this argument for this special status when they have nothing going for them except their size, which isn't that much bigger the others.

We also have the AAU thing going for us as well. Would you not agree that the Commission considered the AAU status of UB and SBU as a huge factor in why the two schools were singled out as "flagship" potential in their report? Both schools realized how that worked for them and bring up the status every chance they can.

 

SUNY Buffalo, you need to learn a life lesson, a business lesson, and a general lesson. You get ahead by working with others.... You have made the same arguments over and over.

Because you don't seem to be answering the questions I have asked concerning the same arguments you have also made over and over, such as;

 

1) UB is killing relationships with the other Centers with it's actions;

2) "The other SUNY Centers should remember this every time UB comes calling"

 

I've asked:

1) Can you cite cases of research schools within a state system working together on mutually beneficial projects, either within SUNY or other states?

2) If there is no precedent why would UB's administration, or any of the Center's, be inclined to draft legislation that affects the development of other independent campuses?

2) You've alluded to there being some type of punishment or fatalistic "karma" coming UB's way for all of this. If each Center has its own administration, how would the school be punished by other schools? If the schools do not work together on any projects now, how would they cause harm to another? Would SUNY or the legislator's seriously punish UB, all because UB submitted legislation that tried to change SUNY? For UB's part, if there are no consequences, then they have nothing to lose except UB2020 taking longer to complete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"1) Can you cite cases of research schools within a state system working together on mutually beneficial projects, either within SUNY or other states?"

 

Tere are numerous examples of campuses collaborating on research projects. There are many sub awards and sub contracts among camuses witin /SUNY and with other systems. I believe UBuffalo's earthquake research project had sub contracts with other institutions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is true, the earthquake center is a member of a research consortium. Perhaps I need to refine my question. I'm speaking of campuses working together in crafting legislation, or strategic planing projects, that benefit more than one school. Are there any examples of campuses working together on a scale that some argue the SUNY Centers should have worked?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point here is there was a system in place where these university centers were treated with equality and fairness. SUNY Buffalo decided that collaboration was an issue to their development. Sponsoring legislation that would help the research centers wasn't in their best interest. What is in their best interest is an adversarial system of winner takes all. As has been pointed out, they didn't even want their fellow “flagship” Stony Brook to be included. No one has explained why including the other SUNY Centers would have hurt SUNY Buffalo. Is it so terrible that the other centers could also lease land or have an expedited process? How does that hurt Buffalo? It doesn't! You can get ahead by working as a team or by pulling others down. President Simpson thinks it’s best to resort to hostility and cheap tricks.

 

SUNY Buffalo has started a fight that I don't think they'll win. Down state has some real heavy hitting legislators. Stony Brook will get their cut of the pie. The NYC metro will get more money than Buffalo. Binghamton has also ramped up their lobbying. UAlbany has started to respond to this new aggressive stance by SUNY Buffalo. Buffalo thinks an adversarial approach works best and that collaboration is a problem. Ok, SUNY Buffalo wants hostility. We can all change our approach.

 

This thread should come to an end (Please delete it). We are just giving SUNY Buffalo a forum to rant on about their "special situation". What comes of it though? No one here is any more convinced and yet he continues on. I refuse to let you have the last word on a UAlbany website. No one care about SUNY Buffalo. Move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point here is there was a system in place where these university centers were treated with equality and fairness.

Can this be proven? Treated "with equality and fairness" by whom? They are granted the charge of providing doctoral and professional degrees above the other SUNY colleges. That's it. I can't recall any official SUNY pronouncement that the Centers are anything more than placed within the label of University Centers, not a "brotherhood". This notion that Rockefeller wanted anything more than 4 great universities does not support an idealized contention that he wished for equality among them (and even he began to believe over time that he had over-extended the system).

 

There are many posts about how the Centers are not funded equally by the state. This is nothing new. For campus projects, the State Office of General Services states, "Each SUNY Campus is recognized as a separate client entity. Each has its own capital construction budgets to be administered according to its own unique long term master plan.....While there will be some degree of consistency and commonality between campuses arising out of their common mission, it must be acknowledged that each campus has unique curricula, history, geography, management, and agendas." That's not equality and fairness. With decreasing state operational funding, the centers are required to find new funding sources and seek public-private partnership opportunities. If anything, the Centers have been diverging from one another in any commonalities ever since Pataki's administration enacted more conservative, quasi-privatization initiatives to the SUNY system.

 

This idea the Centers were a brotherhood that has now been torn apart by UB's actions is, with all due respect to your personal opinions, not based on reality. I've argued that the 4 Centers are independent and their administrations have their own agendas to develop as they please. I won't argue that the 2020 bill as it is currently written is not fair, it's not. But it's not "hostile" and "trickery" if there is no precedent or consequences. UGA, Georgia Tech, and Georgia State are all classified as Research Universities in the University System of Georgia, but do they work with each other in lobbying, legislation, and developing master plans, affecting more than one university? C'mon.

 

This thread was started about 'UB Lobbying' and I'm debating points that are brought up here, not ranting about UB being special. I don't care about having the last word. I'm asking to see proof of precedent to bolster opinions. I'm not afraid of being proven wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point here is there was a system in place where these university centers were treated with equality and fairness.

Can this be proven? Treated "with equality and fairness" by whom? They are granted the charge of providing doctoral and professional degrees above the other SUNY colleges. That's it. I can't recall any official SUNY pronouncement that the Centers are anything more than placed within the label of University Centers, not a "brotherhood". This notion that Rockefeller wanted anything more than 4 great universities does not support an idealized contention that he wished for equality among them (and even he began to believe over time that he had over-extended the system).

 

There are many posts about how the Centers are not funded equally by the state. This is nothing new. For campus projects, the State Office of General Services states, "Each SUNY Campus is recognized as a separate client entity. Each has its own capital construction budgets to be administered according to its own unique long term master plan.....While there will be some degree of consistency and commonality between campuses arising out of their common mission, it must be acknowledged that each campus has unique curricula, history, geography, management, and agendas." That's not equality and fairness. With decreasing state operational funding, the centers are required to find new funding sources and seek public-private partnership opportunities. If anything, the Centers have been diverging from one another in any commonalities ever since Pataki's administration enacted more conservative, quasi-privatization initiatives to the SUNY system.

 

This idea the Centers were a brotherhood that has now been torn apart by UB's actions is, with all due respect to your personal opinions, not based on reality. I've argued that the 4 Centers are independent and their administrations have their own agendas to develop as they please. I won't argue that the 2020 bill as it is currently written is not fair, it's not. But it's not "hostile" and "trickery" if there is no precedent or consequences. UGA, Georgia Tech, and Georgia State are all classified as Research Universities in the University System of Georgia, but do they work with each other in lobbying, legislation, and developing master plans, affecting more than one university? C'mon.

 

This thread was started about 'UB Lobbying' and I'm debating points that are brought up here, not ranting about UB being special. I don't care about having the last word. I'm asking to see proof of precedent to bolster opinions. I'm not afraid of being proven wrong.

 

UBB,

 

I've asked numerous times on your board and even mentioned it here if memory serves but haven't gotten a response as of yet. Does it not trouble you at all that as presently written this legislation would remove any oversight by the Chancellor of the SUNY system and the Board of Trustees over what UB does?

 

To me it seems like a shallow attempt to remain a SUNY school in name and financial support only.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

UBB,

 

I've asked numerous times on your board and even mentioned it here if memory serves but haven't gotten a response as of yet. Does it not trouble you at all that as presently written this legislation would remove any oversight by the Chancellor of the SUNY system and the Board of Trustees over what UB does?

 

To me it seems like a shallow attempt to remain a SUNY school in name and financial support only.

I've mentioned the Pennsylvania Commonwealth System, where Temple, Penn State, and Pittsburgh are classified as "state-related", independent public universities. It works there so I don't see why it would not work well in New York for all the Centers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

UBB,

 

I've asked numerous times on your board and even mentioned it here if memory serves but haven't gotten a response as of yet. Does it not trouble you at all that as presently written this legislation would remove any oversight by the Chancellor of the SUNY system and the Board of Trustees over what UB does?

 

To me it seems like a shallow attempt to remain a SUNY school in name and financial support only.

I've mentioned the Pennsylvania Commonwealth System, where Temple, Penn State, and Pittsburgh are classified as "state-related", independent public universities. It works there so I don't see why it would not work in New York.

 

 

Interesting....I'll be honest, I've been following this discussion and the one on your board and this is first time I've seen you address this, so thank you. Perhaps I simply missed it. Would you agree that you only want to remain a part of "SUNY" because of the financial support the state provides or do you actually see redeemable value in being part of the SUNY system other then $$$$?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would you agree that you only want to remain a part of "SUNY" because of the financial support the state provides or do you actually see redeemable value in being part of the SUNY system other then $$$$?

Personally, I'm a fan of SUNY, UB as a SUNY school, and only hope the system can improve. I haven't researched all of the recommendations for university autonomy from the Higher Ed. Commission Report and compared them to the points of UB2020, so I don't know if the Report called for such a degree of sweeping autonomy as UB is seeking. Obviously, state funding for UB is dropping so they are trying to streamline future projects and new funding sources. The only mention of UB breaking from SUNY I've seen was in the Buffalo News, after the state shifted tuition increases to help the debt situation. The mention was in passing, as in UB was exploring all their options. I don't think UB wants to break from SUNY, for more reasons than just money; The application process would be less efficient, gaining transfers from community colleges would be more difficult, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...