UAlbany vs. Maine (2/9/2013)

[madDOG]

This is all a very interesting conversation..with a seemingly wide range of opinions. I imagine it would be difficult for anyone here to convince others of their own opinions..because being a fan is pretty individual. It seems there are many different definitions of "success".."competitive"..and even "entertainment." Those definitions will likely vary based on personality.. time following the program..etc. For those who started following the program closely in the mid 2000s..it makes perfect sense to be frustrated..because we have yet to again reach that peak that some fans began with. For those who have followed the program much longer..the frustration level might not be as high because they may have experienced many more peaks and valleys. I imagine both groups..or all of the groups..want to get back to their own definition of "success" just as much as the other(s).

 

I think different programs likely have different definitions of success as well. After a number of years of sitting at/near the basement..I would imagine programs like the UMBCs..Binghamtons..and New Hampshires could view a few consecutive top half finishes as successful. Based on the past 8-10 years..a program like Vermont would likely view a few consecutive finishes outside of the top third as unsuccessful..but grab a Vermont fan from the 90s..and they'd likely be very excited about the thought of multiple-consecutive top half finishes. A program like Stony Brook has been successful in league play over the past few years..but has continued to be unsuccessful when it comes to an NCAA bid. Perhaps that changes this year.

 

Expectations are inherently personal..so I'm not sure loads of data and statistics will change either "side's" mind.

 

The piece that has been mentioned to a lesser extent..that I often heavily consider in my personal definition of success..are the academic achievements of the players/program. That's an area I think we can agree that we've been comparatively successful in recently.

 

well said

[Dane96]

UA'08, I completely agree...lets just find the bottom 10% of programs in the country and compare ourselves to them. See...it could be worse, we could be Maine or Hartford.

 

SMH!

 

6 years + 5.7(on average) games out of first = non-competitive!

\

 

St. John's must suck then.

[Dane96]

I would prefer seeing this program dominant year in and year out, in this conference.

Which programs' fans don't think they should be dominant year after year? UVM, SBU, BUMA all feel entitled to the 'dominant team' (regardless of results). Hartford thinks they're on the rise. The others think they only need a new coach.

I'd like to see an conference upgrade. We will not see a conference upgrade being mediocre in the america east.

Seriously, which conference? The sixteen-team (three public) Atlantic-10? The CAA is back near our level, throw out the conferences with FBS football, and everybody in the South and Midwest, who's left? The Patriot? Is that the upgrade you're looking for?

 

The kind of conference upgrade I'm talking about will never happened with limited vision, small time thinkers.

Therefore, a reasonable goal is to actually become DOMINANT in OUR conference.

 

And where are we getting this money from to support any "grandiose" thinking.

[UA'08]

And that's why the mets, islanders, Knicks, and jets go through so many coaching changes compared to the Yankees and giants.

 

Again, I'm not saying fire brown right now, but change things around. Let the AD bring in his assistants. There needs to be adjustments. It's like I've been watching the same thing for the past 6 years.

[Clickclack]

Bob...to your point, I don't believe we are entitlted to "always dominate"...but should we expect at least once in a half a decade to be at or near the top? I'm sorry but on average a finish of 5.7 games out of first and I believe (I'll double check) ONE finish in the top 3 over the last 6 years to me is inexcusable and simply NOT enough.

 

We have no regular season AE titles (not even close), we have zero AE final appearences, we have no NCAA tourney births in more then a half a decade and I believe most would acknowledge we squandered the momentum we did have. Are standards really that low that folks are willing to turn a blind eye to this program having very very marginal sucess?

 

What is our greatest accomplishment in the last six years (a contract and an extension)...serious question....what is it? Probably 2-3 against LCC in the last three years and the Washington win? It certainly isn't being competitive against the top of the AE or deep runs in the tourney.

 

This program is at a crossroads...if this is good enough...I guess I really need to adjust my expectations. No one is saying that the coaches aren't trying but at some point we have to ask...is it good enough and does this reality justify keeping this course.

[UAalum72]

[The kind of conference upgrade I'm talking about will never happened with limited vision, small time thinkers.

Still not saying which upgrade you're talking about. The only ones that I think you want would have to be driven by football, not by by basketball success.

[Clickclack]

UA'08, I completely agree...lets just find the bottom 10% of programs in the country and compare ourselves to them. See...it could be worse, we could be Maine or Hartford.

 

SMH!

 

6 years + 5.7(on average) games out of first = non-competitive!

\

 

St. John's must suck then.

 

Really?

[UA'08]

Having assistants that played for you won't change the philosophy at all. Yes its cool seeing Brent Wilson and john Iati come back, but I just can't see brown treating them as peers esp since they are not too far removed from playing for him.

[Clickclack]

Having assistants that played for you won't change the philosophy at all. Yes its cool seeing Brent Wilson and john Iati come back, but I just can't see brown treating them as peers esp since they are not too far removed from playing for him.

 

I'm of the opinion that any coach should sink or swin with his team...if you are forcing assistants on any coach then just let the coach go. Otherwise it breeds more excuses...these aren't my guys...I can't win.

[UA'08]

Having assistants that played for you won't change the philosophy at all. Yes its cool seeing Brent Wilson and john Iati come back, but I just can't see brown treating them as peers esp since they are not too far removed from playing for him.

 

I'm of the opinion that any coach should sink or swin with his team...if you are forcing assistants on any coach then just let the coach go. Otherwise it breeds more excuses...these aren't my guys...I can't win.

 

You're absolutely right on that it breeds more excuses if they don't win. Usually that's done to send a message, in the pros at least, that you better show some results or else.

 

The coaching staff has yet to develop any sort of big man pressence and after Wilson left you think they would try to bring in coach that can help our bigs out, but we get a 5'9 guard to be an assistant.

[UA'08]

Having assistants that played for you won't change the philosophy at all. Yes its cool seeing Brent Wilson and john Iati come back, but I just can't see brown treating them as peers esp since they are not too far removed from playing for him.

 

I'm of the opinion that any coach should sink or swin with his team...if you are forcing assistants on any coach then just let the coach go. Otherwise it breeds more excuses...these aren't my guys...I can't win.

 

You're absolutely right on that it breeds more excuses if they don't win. Usually that's done to send a message, in the pros at least, that you better show some results or else.

 

The coaching staff has yet to develop any sort of big man pressence and after Wilson left you think they would try to bring in a coach that can help our bigs out, but we get a 5'9 guard to be an assistant.

[UA'08]

I would prefer seeing this program dominant year in and year out, in this conference.

Which programs' fans don't think they should be dominant year after year? UVM, SBU, BUMA all feel entitled to the 'dominant team' (regardless of results). Hartford thinks they're on the rise. The others think they only need a new coach.

I'd like to see an conference upgrade. We will not see a conference upgrade being mediocre in the america east.

Seriously, which conference? The sixteen-team (three public) Atlantic-10? The CAA is back near our level, throw out the conferences with FBS football, and everybody in the South and Midwest, who's left? The Patriot? Is that the upgrade you're looking for?

 

The kind of conference upgrade I'm talking about will never happened with limited vision, small time thinkers.

Therefore, a reasonable goal is to actually become DOMINANT in OUR conference.

 

And where are we getting this money from to support any "grandiose" thinking.

 

It can be done. We are just not fortunate enough to have any big time alums who give a damn about athletics. Look at UB playing in a FBS conference that had a team play in a BCS bowl. We all know that Stony Brook is eyeing that down as well looking to expand their stadium even more and have a completely renovated basketball arena. Not to mention they went to the CWS last year.

[uofalbany]

[The kind of conference upgrade I'm talking about will never happened with limited vision, small time thinkers.

Still not saying which upgrade you're talking about. The only ones that I think you want would have to be driven by football, not by by basketball success.

 

I may have unintentionally put too much emphasis on upgrading in conference. It's more of a long term goal that I would have in place,

and a wet dream of sorts for the time being. My intention was to emphasize that a UA basketball program is capable of dominating this league.

Phoenix had some pertinent things to say in regards to this topic. Although I support all of our programs, I'm not too interested or excited with

mediocrity. We, as a university, stayed quite content with athletics mediocrity over the past century. There was very little focus or concern.

We have people that stepped in and had a bigger vision, and created larger goals for the athletic department. Now that we understand how

much potential there is for this university, do we elevate our goals even farther?

[bob87]

And that's why the mets, islanders, Knicks, and jets go through so many coaching changes compared to the Yankees and giants.

 

Again, I'm not saying fire brown right now, but change things around. Let the AD bring in his assistants. There needs to be adjustments. It's like I've been watching the same thing for the past 6 years.

 

For one thing how have all those coaching changes worked out for those pro teams like the Isles and mets. new coach, a lot of the same shortcomings.

 

Coaching is a factor, not the only factor.

Also there were many that wanted Coughlin fired during at least one of the seasons where the giants won the suuperbowl.

As far as UAlbany, Obviously I want to see them do well.

Nothing is more fun than going to the tournament for the fans and I presume players and coaches.

 

This season is not finished yet and I would prefer to let it play completely out first. I do not prefer to be in the overreact club of "fire the coach" after every lose and "extentsion" after a Washington win or an LCC win or whatever.

Edited February 12, 2013 by bob87

[bob87]

Bob...to your point, I don't believe we are entitlted to "always dominate"...but should we expect at least once in a half a decade to be at or near the top? I'm sorry but on average a finish of 5.7 games out of first and I believe (I'll double check) ONE finish in the top 3 over the last 6 years to me is inexcusable and simply NOT enough.

 

We have no regular season AE titles (not even close), we have zero AE final appearences, we have no NCAA tourney births in more then a half a decade and I believe most would acknowledge we squandered the momentum we did have. Are standards really that low that folks are willing to turn a blind eye to this program having very very marginal sucess?

 

What is our greatest accomplishment in the last six years (a contract and an extension)...serious question....what is it? Probably 2-3 against LCC in the last three years and the Washington win? It certainly isn't being competitive against the top of the AE or deep runs in the tourney.

 

This program is at a crossroads...if this is good enough...I guess I really need to adjust my expectations. No one is saying that the coaches aren't trying but at some point we have to ask...is it good enough and does this reality justify keeping this course.

 

Click

I don't have a secret formula.

You must contend X years out of Y years or it is a failure.

I want to see the team do as well as they can.

 

Over the last 5+ years the league records has been 10-6,6-10,2-14, 9-7, 9-7 and 7-5 with 4 to play. First place has been either 13-3 or 14-2. To be the best you have to get to around 13-3(you would think at least 12-4). The question is how?

 

Obviously, I would like to see the team contend and at the end of the season or a coaching contract it is the nature of the business to ask your question about coaching. However I don't think that is ever the only question to be asked as to what needs to be done to improve.

However during the season, to me it does not serve a purpose to "overrect" to either the wins or losses. Nor does looking at 10 year records which tell you nothing on how to get to 12-4 going forward serve a purpose to me.