mbb 2019 Game #11: 12/10/19 - 7:00PM @ Boston College

[UA'08]

37 minutes ago, UA1882 said:

Now to be far we are injured.  Luka will get his feet under him and Anderson will come back sometime . I will try and wait until conference play . But at this point I'm hoping for 8-8. 

Everybody should just have zero expectations out of Anderson to minimize the potential disappointment.

[Coach Nichols]

33 minutes ago, godanesgo99 said:

There are some fans here that get overly negative on everything. That is what being a sports fan is all about. When I complain about it and how it might affect a players mindset when/if they read it, I'm told that they are adults and can handle it, and that complaining is all part of being a fan on a message board. It wouldn't surprise me if the negativity here helped push your son and Cremo to transfer. I've been told directly from people that it had affected some of the other players in the past. It's sad, but it is what it is.

People on the board loved your son his sophomore year, but got on him hard his junior year. Clark exhibits many of the same things people got on David for. There are times when it seems forced and bad decisions are made. Both kids are/were immense talents. Some of the best we have ever seen at UA, but both had frustrating performances at times. Both can/could carry the team and look like the best players on the floor against an ACC team one game, then drive to rim against 3 defenders and throw a circus shot with no foul called on three straight possessions the next game.

Both were 1st team all AE talents. Both would be significantly better with another ball handling threat on the floor with them that UA just hasn't had.

If JoJo is as good as advertised, a guard rotation of Clark/JoJo/Healy/Rizzuto could be hard to beat. 

My biggest frustration with this team is the amount of 1 on 1 play and deep three point shots. The bigs haven't shown they are an inside threat or that they can handle passes. This allows the other team to focus on guarding the perimeter, which forces so much pressure on the guards that they turn the ball over. When the shots are falling, this team can play with every team they have faced so far. When they aren't, the team will see a 5 minute slump of 0 points scored. It's been the same MO since the 16-17 season.

To me, the top priority for the coaching staff right now would be to develop confidence in Lulka, Hank, Lauderdale, and French. Convince Hansen to use his length down low instead of the perimeter. Get Doherty minutes to develop for next year, and focus all recruiting effort on a talented 4 year big.

I don’t think the kids read the message board,  but enough people around them do that I am sure they were aware.   Now if you said Twitter or Instagram, they definitely see it.   I have seen some of the Clark/Nichols comparisons and they are really not good comps.  But it would take such a detailed basketball conversation to explain the differences it’s not worth it.  Don’t get me wrong. David was/is and forever will be a shoot first PG.  Trust me, I am a 30 year coach and we would battle and argue so no one knows better than me.  But David is also one of the smartest players I ever coached. And EVERY coach he has played for would talk about his knowledge of the game.   Often too smart for his own good to be honest. When David played for me, I would scream at him about what I though was a bonehead or selfish play, then we would watch the tape and damn it he always saw something I missed.  You all don’t see that not should you.   Fans should be fans and judge by what you see.   I never have or will have a problem with any criticism of his or any kids game.  Just not my cup of tea, even as a fan,  but have at it.  My only problem I ever have is questions of character, etc.  Too many personal biases seep in when people try to explain why someone does something.   We can disagree to our hearts content about the “What”, I get really protective over the “why’”.  
 

Oh and BTW, the story of Joe and David transferring was way more matter of fact than salacious.  Nothing bad, no hard feelings, none of that.  But that’s their story to tell not mine. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Coach Nichols

[UA'08]

3 minutes ago, Coach Nichols said:

I don’t think the kids read the message board,  but enough people around them do that I am sure they were aware.   Now if you said Twitter or Instagram, they definitely see it.   I have seen some of the Clark/Nichols comparisons and they are really not good comps.  But it would take such a detailed basketball conversation to explain the differences it’s not worth it.  Don’t get me wrong. David was/is and forever will be a shoot first PG.  Trust me, I am a 30 year coach and we would battle and argue so no one knows better than me.  But David is also one of the smartest players I ever coached. And EVERY coach he has played for would talk about his knowledge of the game.   Often too smart for his own good to be honest. When David played for me, I would scream at him about what I though was a bonehead or selfish play, then we would watch the tape and damn it he always saw something I missed.  You all don’t see that not should you.   Fans should be fans and judge by what you see.   I never have or will have a problem with any criticism of his or any kids game.  Just not my cup of tea, even as a fan,  but have at it.  My only problem I ever have is questions of character, etc.  Too many personal biases seep in when people try to explain why someone does something.   We can disagree to our hearts content about the “What”, I get really protective over the why. 

Did David already have the 18-19 season mapped out before the start of the 17-18 season?

[godanesgo99]

2 minutes ago, Coach Nichols said:

I don’t think the kids read the message board,  but enough people around them do that I am sure they were aware.   Now if you said Twitter or Instagram, they definitely see it.   I have seen some of the Clark/Nichols comparisons and they are really not good comps.  But it would take such a detailed basketball conversation to explain the differences it’s not worth it.  Don’t get me wrong. David was/is and forever will be a shoot first PG.  Trust me, I am a 30 year coach and we would battle and argue so no one knows better than me.  But David is also one of the smartest players I ever coached. And EVERY coach he has played for would talk about his knowledge of the game.   Often too smart for his own good to be honest. When David played for me, I would scream at him about what I though was a bonehead or selfish play, then we would watch the tape and damn it he always saw something I missed.  You all don’t see that not should you.   Fans should be fans and judge by what you see.   I never have or will have a problem with any criticism of his or any kids game.  Just not my cup of tea, even as a fan,  but have at it.  My only problem I ever have is questions of character, etc.  Too many personal biases seep in when people try to explain why someone does something.   We can disagree to our hearts content about the “What”, I get really protective over the why. 

I'm not sure anyone (definitely not me) ever accused David or Clark of being selfish. I been one of the biggest supporters of Clark on this board, and my post history will show that. I honestly don't remember ever saying anything bad about either, beyond what looked like forced plays and what appeared to be a lack of trust in their teammates causing them to try to do to much.

Beyond that, I love that you are on the board and following the team 2 seasons after David took his last shot in purple and gold. It shows the respect Brown has gained the program.

Hope David is doing well.

Also hope that this team figures out whatever it is they need. Only a few games left until the real season begins.

It could be worse. At UA we build our teams up and when they don't live up to our oversized expectations we get depressed. We could be UVM fans though...  they had dreams of getting an at large if they somehow got upset in the conference tourney. After these last few weeks they now have to deal with being disappointed when they get a 15 seed or nothing. We are going to be excited when we land a 16 or a PIG after beating them in the AE championship game. 

Everything comes down to expectations and if they are met.

[Coach Nichols]

6 minutes ago, UA'08 said:

Did David already have the 18-19 season mapped out before the start of the 17-18 season?

David’s decision to transfer happened in about a 12 hour span weeks after the season.   I know you don’t know me, but if David didn’t transfer after his Freshman year when he didn’t play or sophomore year when damn near every school in the country reached out through friends of friends there was no plan during the season.  Never discussed or considered until well after the season ended. He hadn’t even completed his requirements for graduation.  Something he could have knocked out of easily during the season. 

[DanesRGood]

20 minutes ago, Coach Nichols said:

I don’t think the kids read the message board,  but enough people around them do that I am sure they were aware.   Now if you said Twitter or Instagram, they definitely see it.   I have seen some of the Clark/Nichols comparisons and they are really not good comps.  But it would take such a detailed basketball conversation to explain the differences it’s not worth it.  Don’t get me wrong. David was/is and forever will be a shoot first PG.  Trust me, I am a 30 year coach and we would battle and argue so no one knows better than me.  But David is also one of the smartest players I ever coached. And EVERY coach he has played for would talk about his knowledge of the game.   Often too smart for his own good to be honest. When David played for me, I would scream at him about what I though was a bonehead or selfish play, then we would watch the tape and damn it he always saw something I missed.  You all don’t see that not should you.   Fans should be fans and judge by what you see.   I never have or will have a problem with any criticism of his or any kids game.  Just not my cup of tea, even as a fan,  but have at it.  My only problem I ever have is questions of character, etc.  Too many personal biases seep in when people try to explain why someone does something.   We can disagree to our hearts content about the “What”, I get really protective over the “why’”.  
 

Oh and BTW, the story of Joe and David transferring was way more matter of fact than salacious.  Nothing bad, no hard feelings, none of that.  But that’s their story to tell not mine. 

Thanks for joining and contributing Coach Nichols. Fans can definitely be hard of these kids sometimes when things aren't going right but I think you will find, on this board at least, that it's rare that a young man's character is called out.  Maybe some did when Joe and David transferred since that was very hard for some to digest but overall we understand that these are good young men, good students and good representatives of the university. That is something that I think we can all agree on is that Brown recruits good kids.  Some may not live up to our expectations on the court but almost ALL live up to them off the court and in the classroom.

Best of luck to you and your son.

[UA'08]

1 minute ago, Coach Nichols said:

David’s decision to transfer happened in about a 12 hour span weeks after the season.   I know you don’t know me, but if David didn’t transfer after his Freshman year when he didn’t play or sophomore year when damn near every school in the country reached out through friends of friends there was no plan during the season.  Never discussed or considered until well after the season ended. He hadn’t even completed his requirements for graduation.  Something he could have knocked out of easily during the season. 

Gotcha. I have no reason not to believe you. I asked that because if the coaching staff did have some sort of idea then they did an awful job on the recruiting trail preparing for it.

[Coach Nichols]

20 minutes ago, godanesgo99 said:

I'm not sure anyone (definitely not me) ever accused David or Clark of being selfish. I been one of the biggest supporters of Clark on this board, and my post history will show that. I honestly don't remember ever saying anything bad about either, beyond what looked like forced plays and what appeared to be a lack of trust in their teammates causing them to try to do to much.

Beyond that, I love that you are on the board and following the team 2 seasons after David took his last shot in purple and gold. It shows the respect Brown has gained the program.

Hope David is doing well.

Also hope that this team figures out whatever it is they need. Only a few games left until the real season begins.

It could be worse. At UA we build our teams up and when they don't live up to our oversized expectations we get depressed. We could be UVM fans though...  they had dreams of getting an at large if they somehow got upset in the conference tourney. After these last few weeks they now have to deal with being disappointed when they get a 15 seed or nothing. We are going to be excited when we land a 16 or a PIG after beating them in the AE championship game. 

Everything comes down to expectations and if they are met.

We love the Danes.  Still follow the games, watch when I can.  Have nothing but respect for Coach Brown and the staff and it goes beyond basketball.  And BTW David was a much better basketball player his junior year than his sophomore year.  Only difference was he missed more shots during the first half of the season. But man, Coach Brown had him doing so many little things better it was astonishing.  David played in the ACC not because of the points he scored his sophomore year but because of the improvement of his defensive footwork, his MUCH improved decision making, the practical elimination of free throw line to free throw line turnovers (not all TOs are the same).  Hell, David’s biggest disappointment JR year was not making all defensive team.   The mere fact that he started the year with that being his biggest goal was all Coach Brown. When he sent me that text I thought it was from one of my other players:). 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Coach Nichols

[Clickclack]

53 minutes ago, godanesgo99 said:

There are some fans here that get overly negative on everything. That is what being a sports fan is all about. When I complain about it and how it might affect a players mindset when/if they read it, I'm told that they are adults and can handle it, and that complaining is all part of being a fan on a message board. It wouldn't surprise me if the negativity here helped push your son and Cremo to transfer. I've been told directly from people that it had affected some of the other players in the past. It's sad, but it is what it is.

People on the board loved your son his sophomore year, but got on him hard his junior year. Clark exhibits many of the same things people got on David for. There are times when it seems forced and bad decisions are made. Both kids are/were immense talents. Some of the best we have ever seen at UA, but both had frustrating performances at times. Both can/could carry the team and look like the best players on the floor against an ACC team one game, then drive to rim against 3 defenders and throw a circus shot with no foul called on three straight possessions the next game.

Both were 1st team all AE talents. Both would be significantly better with another ball handling threat on the floor with them that UA just hasn't had.

If JoJo is as good as advertised, a guard rotation of Clark/JoJo/Healy/Rizzuto could be hard to beat. 

My biggest frustration with this team is the amount of 1 on 1 play and deep three point shots. The bigs haven't shown they are an inside threat or that they can handle passes. This allows the other team to focus on guarding the perimeter, which forces so much pressure on the guards that they turn the ball over. When the shots are falling, this team can play with every team they have faced so far. When they aren't, the team will see a 5 minute slump of 0 points scored. It's been the same MO since the 16-17 season.

To me, the top priority for the coaching staff right now would be to develop confidence in Lulka, Hank, Lauderdale, and French. Convince Hansen to use his length down low instead of the perimeter. Get Doherty minutes to develop for next year, and focus all recruiting effort on a talented 4 year big.

Have you see or visited other fan boards? We are far from unique in our negativity. 

[Eli]

1 hour ago, Coach Nichols said:

I assume some of you won’t engage with me because based on the way I see you talk about the kids you probably slammed my son.  LOL.  But as it relates to Brown he is as solid as it gets as a coach.  Do I agree with everything he does? Of course not, but he can coach.  

I'll be honest. I got on your son. A LOT. And yes, that's why I haven't responded to you previously although I agree with you RE: Brown (just like I have no qualms with Brown and I think he's earned a damn-near-lifetime contract IMO similar to Doc, Bob Ford, etc.).

HOWEVER, I will reiterate (as you will see if you search for my posts regarding David), it was never personal. I'm sure he is a great person off the court and I'm sure you did a helluva job raising the man, but on the court/between the lines...the things that drive me mad about Clark (shooting ill-advised shots without running the offense, turnovers, playing to his own drum)...are the same things I commented on in RE: to David. And again, it was just my opinion so at the end of the day, I could very well be wrong.

It's never personal for me. At the end of the day, these guys are representing the program and university that I absolutely love. I didn't become a season ticket holder until I myself became a night student at the University so I just bleed purple and gold and want the best for the entire community. As GDG alludes to below, unfortunately, sports can get emotional and sometimes our hot takes are probably too much and I'll be the first to admit it. I used to be a LOT louder at games (I have amazing seats) but over the years I find myself mellowing out.

That being said, I don't think we have many posters here who are that close to the program either currently or in the past by way of players, coaching staff, etc. so welcome. Good to have you aboard.

 

1 hour ago, godanesgo99 said:

People on the board loved your son his sophomore year, but got on him hard his junior year. Clark exhibits many of the same things people got on David for. There are times when it seems forced and bad decisions are made. Both kids are/were immense talents. Some of the best we have ever seen at UA, but both had frustrating performances at times. Both can/could carry the team and look like the best players on the floor against an ACC team one game, then drive to rim against 3 defenders and throw a circus shot with no foul called on three straight possessions the next game.

Agreed. 16-17 David was unreal. 17-18 David...*sigh* (IMO)

But it's water under the bridge at this point with David.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Eli

[godanesgo99]

18 minutes ago, Clickclack said:

Have you see or visited other fan boards? We are far from unique in our negativity. 

This is very true. That's part of what makes sports fun. I think that because UA still has a relatively small fan base it amplifies the sound and tone of any negativity.

[Coach Nichols]

15 minutes ago, Eli said:

I'll be honest. I got on your son. A LOT. And yes, that's why I haven't responded to you previously although I agree with you RE: Brown (just like I have no qualms with Brown and I think he's earned a damn-near-lifetime contract IMO similar to Doc, Bob Ford, etc.).

HOWEVER, I will reiterate (as you will see if you search for my posts regarding David), it was never personal. I'm sure he is a great person off the court and I'm sure you did a helluva job raising the man, but on the court/between the lines...the things that drive me mad about Clark (shooting ill-advised shots without running the offense, turnovers, playing to his own drum)...are the same things I commented on in RE: to David. And again, it was just my opinion so at the end of the day, I could very well be wrong.

It's never personal for me. At the end of the day, these guys are representing the program and university that I absolutely love. I didn't become a season ticket holder until I myself became a night student at the University so I just bleed purple and gold and want the best for the entire community. As GDG alludes to below, unfortunately, sports can get emotional and sometimes our hot takes are probably too much and I'll be the first to admit it. I used to be a LOT louder at games (I have amazing seats) but over the years I find myself mellowing out.

That being said, I don't think we have many posters here who are that close to the program either currently or in the past by way of players, coaching staff, etc. so welcome. Good to have you aboard.

 

Agreed. 16-17 David was unreal. 17-18 David...*sigh*

But it's water under the bridge at this point with David.

I sort of understand and sort of don’t.  Tough shots yes.  David took a lot of them.  But what’s crazy is that he probably shoots better with people all over him than standing wide open. Crazy, but some kids are tough shot makers.  Now don’t get me wrong tough shots are different than bad shots.  And when David gets going, let me tell you, every shot to him is a good shot.  It’s so hard to coach that out of a kid because it’s often than over confidence and self belief that got the kid to the level they are playing.  I only humbly submit one thing as the person who had a little bit to do with David’s game.  Circus shots.  Unlikely.  There was never any fancy dribbling or a bunch of circus shots allowed.  David is WAY more Joe Dumars than James Harden. No wasted motion or moves without a purpose. You are going to have to show me the tape on fancy dribbling or circus shots.  Those are no no’s. Now, long shots are different.  If you are considering a shot a step or two behind the line a bad shot then we are going to disagree.  We call those layups. LOL.  

Edited December 11, 2019 by Coach Nichols

[godanesgo99]

24 minutes ago, Coach Nichols said:

We love the Danes.  Still follow the games, watch when I can.  Have nothing but respect for Coach Brown and the staff and it goes beyond basketball.  And BTW David was a much better basketball player his junior year than his sophomore year.  Only difference was he missed more shots during the first half of the season. But man, Coach Brown had him doing so many little things better it was astonishing.  David played in the ACC not because of the points he scored his sophomore year but because of the improvement of his defensive footwork, his MUCH improved decision making, the practical elimination of free throw line to free throw line turnovers (not all TOs are the same).  Hell, David’s biggest disappointment JR year was not making all defensive team.   The mere fact that he started the year with that being his biggest goal was all Coach Brown. When he sent me that text I thought it was from one of my other players:). 

He may have very well been twice as good his junior year as his sophomore year, but the expectations were set higher (potentially unrealistically) so any of the perceived negatives of forcing or bad decisions were received worse by the fans. It's all about how high the bar was set.

The same thing goes with Clark. I think the fanbase expected more improvement. It's still early though. Conference play is almost here.

[godanesgo99]

Circus shots (to me) means driving to through the lane into multiple defenders then tossing it at the hoop assuming you will draw contact and get to the line, with a prayer of it falling and getting an and 1. When no foul is called it looks silly. I don't have access to all the film, but it happened a lot. Going back to the tape might make it look better than it was live as you mentioned in an earlier post, but perception is reality.

[Coach Nichols]

Final post for the night folks and probably for a while.  Take care everybody. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Coach Nichols