mbb 2019 Game #13: 12/18/19 - 8:30PM @ St. Johns

[Clickclack]

36 minutes ago, Eli said:

I didn't say anything about AE teams...but if you think we aren't missing on some of these kids that went to another conference which has better facilities, you're kidding yourself IMO. Looks at my recruiting spreadsheets and where some of those kids go. As for the kids that go to Vermont, who has (for now) worse facilities, that program is historically the top dog in this conference so that out weighs some of that. We are picked in the middle of the conference nearly every year and either surprise (like 3 or 4 of our 5 'chips) or tank (this year).

You know what else Vermont doesn't do? Give away 50 percent of scholarship to non d1 jucos. Look at their rosters over the years. They win with organic grown talent. We waste every year countless scholarships. I'm gonna throw up if next year's class is amica and 2 or 3 jucos. ENOUGH ALREADY! 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Clickclack

[Eli]

Just now, Clickclack said:

You know what else Vermont doesn't do? Give away 50 percent of scholarship to non d1 jucos. Look at their rosters over the years. They win with organic grown talent. We wast every year countless scholarships. I'm gonna throw up if next year's class is amica and 2 or 3 jucos. ENOUGH ALREADY! 

Fair point.

[UA'08]

20 minutes ago, Eli said:

I didn't say anything about AE teams...but if you think we aren't missing on some of these kids that went to another conference which has better facilities, you're kidding yourself IMO. Looks at my recruiting spreadsheets and where some of those kids go. As for the kids that go to Vermont, who has (for now) worse facilities, that program is historically the top dog in this conference so that out weighs some of that. We are picked in the middle of the conference nearly every year and either surprise (like 3 or 4 of our 5 'chips) or tank (this year).

I’m as big of a fan as they come. Let’s be real on the championships. Without being able to host the quarters and semis in 2013 or 2014 who knows what happens. Without a prayer and miracle in 2015 we’re playing in the NIT. We ended up winning and all three runs were absolutely great at the time. The tournament format has changed since then and the regular season finishes over the years has been mediocre. Yes we made it to the championship game in 2017, but have lost in the quarters the last 3/4 years, which should be unacceptable. I can count on one hand how many times we’ve won more than 12 games in the regular season in conferences. 

The team needs to absolutely start the conference schedule off strong and not put itself in a hole again. 

**Off the top of my head I believe we’ve one 12 games only four times in the regular season! That absolutely boggles my mind as how bad this league has been over the years.

Edited December 19, 2019 by UA'08

[UA'08]

I look at 12 as the benchmark number as that should get you pretty close to at least a 2nd place finish.

[UA'08]

That 15-16 team was still one of the best team was probably better than any of the three prior tournament teams. Still so disappointing.

[Clickclack]

Kenpom has updated after this game and our offensive efficiency and turnover efficiency is dropping like a rock with every game. 

 

This is quickly becoming one of the worst offensive teams in the country. So much for fielding a team of kids that can score... Or needing every kid to score. Apparently none of them can. 

[dslyank]

12 hours ago, Eli said:

The Purple n Gold game was completely #FakeNews. That carter kid looked amazing...has he played a minute in the regular season? I'd say throw him out there to see if he can be another guy to bring the ball up. Bench Rizzuto in favor of him.

Brown say he has a knee injury and more than likely out for the season.

[dslyank]

11 hours ago, Clickclack said:

This is a much better at John's team. They beat Vermont by double digits now

Agreed 100% on both counts. I did not see the vt-ST.Johns game; but if st.J played vt. like they did against UA last night, St.J would blow vt out. Maybe not as bad as they did to UA, but by 10-20 for sure.

Also, how about giving st.J some credit for yesterday! They are 10-2 overall from a power 5 conference and seem to be rounding into Big East shape. 

Also, as I've said before comparing UA to vt. in basketball without looking at the full athletic program; is like comparing UA to that other one sport program llc across down . Simply not fair! I asked before and have got NO responses--how many commissioner cups does vt. have (pretty sure zero); how many ae champs other bb (zero or close to). How much revenue and scholies does vt. expend on football; and don"t try to equate hockey to football in expenses. Not even in same country.

ps UA SUCked yesterday most definitely.

Edited December 19, 2019 by dslyank

[UAalum72]

They’re from a P5 conference and 10-2, but other than a 2-point win over West Virginia, over 5-6 UMass, and a 13-pt loss to Arizona St, that 10-2 record is built on AE, NEC, Ivy and MAAC opponents

[BestDaneSinceHamlet]

4 minutes ago, UAalum72 said:

They’re from a P5 conference and 10-2, but other than a 2-point win over West Virginia, over 5-6 UMass, and a 13-pt loss to Arizona St, that 10-2 record is built on AE, NEC, Ivy and MAAC opponents

And for reference, Arizona State just lost to a top 25 team by 40.  Although we don't need modus tollens to tell us...UA is not a good team..

[Clickclack]

2 hours ago, dslyank said:

Agreed 100% on both counts. I did not see the vt-ST.Johns game; but if st.J played vt. like they did against UA last night, St.J would blow vt out. Maybe not as bad as they did to UA, but by 10-20 for sure.

Also, how about giving st.J some credit for yesterday! They are 10-2 overall from a power 5 conference and seem to be rounding into Big East shape. 

Also, as I've said before comparing UA to vt. in basketball without looking at the full athletic program; is like comparing UA to that other one sport program llc across down . Simply not fair! I asked before and have got NO responses--how many commissioner cups does vt. have (pretty sure zero); how many ae champs other bb (zero or close to). How much revenue and scholies does vt. expend on football; and don"t try to equate hockey to football in expenses. Not even in same country.

ps UA SUCked yesterday most definitely.

Our basketball expenses are 1.7mil theirs are 1.99mil...I'm assuming when you bring up overall program, you are talking resources as in we spread ours out more and that's why we aren't winning as much. Correct me if I'm wrong. We don't have a resource problem...they have worse facilities then ours. 

[jimbo]

5 hours ago, dslyank said:

Agreed 100% on both counts. I did not see the vt-ST.Johns game; but if st.J played vt. like they did against UA last night, St.J would blow vt out. Maybe not as bad as they did to UA, but by 10-20 for sure.

Also, how about giving st.J some credit for yesterday! They are 10-2 overall from a power 5 conference and seem to be rounding into Big East shape. 

Also, as I've said before comparing UA to vt. in basketball without looking at the full athletic program; is like comparing UA to that other one sport program llc across down . Simply not fair! I asked before and have got NO responses--how many commissioner cups does vt. have (pretty sure zero); how many ae champs other bb (zero or close to). How much revenue and scholies does vt. expend on football; and don"t try to equate hockey to football in expenses. Not even in same country.

ps UA SUCked yesterday most definitely.

Just because I'm retired and have the time.....as of June 2019 (give or take a couple on the UVM side):

America East     UVM   43 championships.....25 in M&W BB

                             UA      106 championships....11 in M&W BB         51 are in track and field

[dslyank]

3 hours ago, Clickclack said:

Our basketball expenses are 1.7mil theirs are 1.99mil...I'm assuming when you bring up overall program, you are talking resources as in we spread ours out more and that's why we aren't winning as much. Correct me if I'm wrong. We don't have a resource problem...they have worse facilities then ours. 

By your own calculations they spend almost $300,000 more per year than UA. That is nothing to sneeze @ (Almost 20% more than UA.)  Also UA has more invested in SEFCU in debt and maintenance than vt. has in their facilities (which will change at some point with their new building). But vt does not have a football field/Casey Stadium/Bob Ford Field to pay for and maintain. Their lacrosse field is probably worse in the AmEast. The only one I have not been to is mass-low (which I bet is above average). Anyhow, I stand by my argument that vt. is a one horse show. I am NOT saying that is a bad thing; just it is a little unfair when comparing their bb program to UA's.

[dslyank]

1 hour ago, jimbo said:

Just because I'm retired and have the time.....as of June 2019 (give or take a couple on the UVM side):

America East     UVM   43 championships.....25 in M&W BB

                             UA      106 championships....11 in M&W BB         51 are in track and field

Jimbo not doubting your #s; but curious are you counting uvm's champs  all time or just those since UA joined the league. Remember they have been in  the AmEast and also DI, a lot longer than UA. Also, did you find any commissioner cups for vt? I think NOT.

Also, like my comment to click:  I am NOT trying to knock vt's BB program [they have/had amazing success!] I am just saying it is a little unfair comparing their BB program to UA's. vt is basically a one sport program and at D1 a lot longer than UA.

[Clickclack]

44 minutes ago, dslyank said:

By your own calculations they spend almost $300,000 more per year than UA. That is nothing to sneeze @ (Almost 20% more than UA.)  Also UA has more invested in SEFCU in debt and maintenance than vt. has in their facilities (which will change at some point with their new building). But vt does not have a football field/Casey Stadium/Bob Ford Field to pay for and maintain. Their lacrosse field is probably worse in the AmEast. The only one I have not been to is mass-low (which I bet is above average). Anyhow, I stand by my argument that vt. is a one horse show. I am NOT saying that is a bad thing; just it is a little unfair when comparing their bb program to UA's.

I'm sorry, I don't agree...Doesn't explain the very large failure rate of recruits, namely jucos and transfers. And 299k difference is 14.5% not 20%.

I'm not satisfied where the program is right now and every game seems worse than the last. Lots of excuses but few solutions. Just like football, when the product improves, the complaining will stop. But this is flat of mediocrity or worse, that may be fine for some folks. Again, not like everyone just started piling on after one tough year. 

In 5 years we've gone from 121,129,151,279,221 and 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th in the league...and who knows where this year, well...that's going to lead to questions about why this program is struggling so mightily. Projections this year have dropped from 19 wins to 15 and dropping, next loss will drop projections into sub .500 territory. There was a time where we were lock-step with UVM as an AE power. Not any more, we haven't beaten them in a single game since 2016. Hard to see how that's reversed this year...so yeah, sorry if I'm not buying the excuse of resources. You are free to disagree. 

Stop offering jucos, develop your players instead of wasting scholarships on the quick fix. Is the staff in place conducive to winning at a high level? I don't know, results not great. Obviously CB has a ton of built in equity considering 6 NCAA's but let's be honest, we haven't sniffed a legitimate chance at an AE regular season title or dance ticket in a few years now. Last regular season title was 5 years ago. I don't know...maybe that's acceptable to the masses. Last dance was going on 5 years ago as well, between then and now 13-3, 10-6, 10-6, 7-9 and projected 9-7 (I think we'll be lucky to be better then 8-8 this year). 

 

I guess we'll see how it goes. Not calling for anyone's head but program at a standstill if we are being fair. Even the last 20 win teams were 10-6 and mid pack in the AE and a brutal SOS of 306 and 283. 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Clickclack