Should the University at Albany enforce their In-Door Face Mask Requirement for MBB & WBB games @ SEFCU Arena?

[Clickclack]

12 hours ago, dslyank said:

Do not think Covid is a reality; if everyone followed the protocols and got vaccinated we would have beaten this by now We beat polio and numerous other even more difficult to fight diseases; because people followed the science and did what was required.

So maybe it is a reality now because too many people are so self centered and love to use “personal” freedom to get their own way; rather than do what is good for all humankind. 

ps It is not just my opinion that Covid does not need to be a reality. My son is a phd in a school of public health. Health care professionals in huge #s KNOW it can be wiped out; and just laugh and shake their heads at the stupidity preventing them from doing their job.

There is no consensus in the medical and research community as to whether or not Covid can ever be eradicated. Vermont is the most heavily vaccinated state in the country and cases are spiking...as recently as a few weeks ago 40% increases week over week. The reluctance to acknowledge the reality of natural immunity and just force people in 3rd and 4th shots...*you'll be taking it for life every 6 months* is troubling to many people. So you can pontificate all you want about what is good for humanity and deride personal freedom "to get their own way" or being "self centered" but the hesitation is far more nuanced then you care to admit. Starting with inconsistent messaging, do as I say not as I do by government officials, negative reaction to vaccine, complete disregard for natural immunity that some of us acquired not by choice but when vaccines weren't available (what is the goal, to have antibodies or force shots) etc. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Clickclack

[Clickclack]

13 hours ago, UAalum72 said:

BTW the Gestapo wasn't trying to save people's lives or reduce the burden on hospitals

As someone born and raised in the Soviet Union...I know an oppressive government when I see one and I see on here...comply or you will lose job/livelihood to start. Keep walking down that path whistling, it's a hop skip and a jump to 'round them up'. I'm not anti-vaccine, I'm anti forced vaccination as a medical procedure with no regard for presence of antibodies however they were acquired. People should accept the risk of their choices one way or the other. 

As for burden on hospitals, I'm old enough to remember the daily fear porn from Cuomo, when he wasn't touching staffers bodies without consent about how he needed a giant medical ship, convert central park and Javits center to field hospitals, running out of ventilators...*crickets* 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Clickclack

[cwdickens]

From reading the above two comments: Is Eli and Clickclack stating the world would be better off without malaria, measels, chicken  pox and polio vaccines?...and allowing a number of other infectious diseases transmitted freely killing ten of thousands of people....sad... sadder

[Clickclack]

40 minutes ago, cwdickens said:

From reading the above two comments: Is Eli and Clickclack stating the world would be better off without malaria, measels, chicken  pox and polio vaccines?...and allowing a number of other infectious diseases transmitted freely killing ten of thousands of people....sad... sadder

That is not at all what I'm saying, I and my kids are fully vaxxed, your post is not a good faith argument regarding the situation around Covid.

Comparing vaccines with 99-100% protection such as polio to covid vaccine is interesting to say the least as you are now on shot #3 or #4 with no end in sight are still required to mask and told to get booster every 6 months, to what end? Contrary to what was said, many experts DO expect Covid to become endemic. So prepare to be masked and get boosters every 6 months forever or lose your job, I mean you're OK with that. Imagine getting fired for not taking a flu shot. 

What will it be like when COVID-19 becomes endemic? | News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Edited December 14, 2021 by Clickclack

[Eli]

1 hour ago, cwdickens said:

From reading the above two comments: Is Eli and Clickclack stating the world would be better off without malaria, measels, chicken  pox and polio vaccines?...and allowing a number of other infectious diseases transmitted freely killing ten of thousands of people....sad... sadder

lol. Stick to trying to draw correlations from non-existent relationships between Marquette's strong start and UA's slow start, sir.

[bob87]

LOL

Don't remember exactly how I put it a couple of weeks ago or the topic, but similar applies here. I will go to medical field for medical information. 😂 Not to Eli.

Eli should stick to football analysis here. You know whether to attempt a 64 yard field goal or throw a hail Mary at the end of the half.

Never mind. That is a bad example as well

 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by bob87

[Clickclack]

24 minutes ago, bob87 said:

LOL

Don't remember exactly how I put it a couple of weeks ago or the topic, but similar applies here. I will go to medical field for medical information. 😂 Not to Eli.

Eli should stick to football analysis here. You know whether to attempt a 64 yard field goal or throw a hail Mary at the end of the half.

Never mind. That is a bad example as well

 

 

No one is asking you to take anyone's advise here...keep tilting at windmills. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Clickclack

[cwdickens]

1 hour ago, Clickclack said:

That is not at all what I'm saying, I and my kids are fully vaxxed, your post is not a good faith argument regarding the situation around Covid.

Comparing vaccines with 99-100% protection such as polio to covid vaccine is interesting to say the least as you are now on shot #3 or #4 with no end in sight are still required to mask and told to get booster every 6 months, to what end? Contrary to what was said, many experts DO expect Covid to become endemic. So prepare to be masked and get boosters every 6 months forever or lose your job, I mean you're OK with that. Imagine getting fired for not taking a flu shot. 

What will it be like when COVID-19 becomes endemic? | News | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

We have now reached another "Jumping the Shark" moment .....

[Clickclack]

2 minutes ago, cwdickens said:

We have now reached another "Jumping the Shark" moment .....

Oh, I see...NOW, this moment here, is where we jumped the shark. And NOT after your ridiculous assertion that I'm antivaxx.  LOL...have a nice day. 

[Eli]

1 hour ago, bob87 said:

LOL

Don't remember exactly how I put it a couple of weeks ago or the topic, but similar applies here. I will go to medical field for medical information. 😂 Not to Eli.

Eli should stick to football analysis here. You know whether to attempt a 64 yard field goal or throw a hail Mary at the end of the half.

Never mind. That is a bad example as well

 

 

Shouldn't you also be on the road to Marquette to help Dickens in his analysis of non-existent correlations?

As for FB: if you were such an expert, you'd be on the sideline...lol.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Eli

[cwdickens]

2 hours ago, Eli said:

Shouldn't you also be on the road to Marquette to help Dickens in his analysis of non-existent correlations?

As for FB: if you were such an expert, you'd be on the sideline...lol.

LOL....I am going to take pleasure in letting know how Marquette is doing........

[dslyank]

6 hours ago, Clickclack said:

There is no consensus in the medical and research community as to whether or not Covid can ever be eradicated. Vermont is the most heavily vaccinated state in the country and cases are spiking...as recently as a few weeks ago 40% increases week over week. The reluctance to acknowledge the reality of natural immunity and just force people in 3rd and 4th shots...*you'll be taking it for life every 6 months* is troubling to many people. So you can pontificate all you want about what is good for humanity and deride personal freedom "to get their own way" or being "self centered" but the hesitation is far more nuanced then you care to admit. Starting with inconsistent messaging, do as I say not as I do by government officials, negative reaction to vaccine, complete disregard for natural immunity that some of us acquired not by choice but when vaccines weren't available (what is the goal, to have antibodies or force shots) etc. 

I am NOT advocating shots for life. Just the opposite.  If everyone or 80-90% whatever the heard immunity # was/is got the first round of shots when recommended, we would NOT be in the position we are now. Of course there were rollout issues; age issues, and experts were hesitant to say who should and who should not get shots and when. It was a learning curve for everyone obviously and maybe even some gambling by researchers. But absolutely the health care field as a whole DOES feel that covid can and WILL be if not totally eradicated be controllable. The more people cooperate the sooner this can be accomplished.

And you can soft petal it all you want but Delta was absolutely positively caused by the un-vaccinated. They were the carriers who brought this on; and sure vaccinated people got the disease; but it came from the un-vaccinated and would have been exponentially less potent, less serious illnesses, & less deaths if more people would have gotten vaccinated when it became available.

You are a lot younger than me and have a chance to live to see CANCER eradicated in your life time. For medical researchers covid is a toy compared to what has been accomplished in CANCER research already and what WILL be done in the future. Like it or not, believe or not Pfisser & Moderna, JJ, Albany Molecular came up with (at least the start) of cure for covid in what 3 months. IMHO don't need to sweat taking a dose every six months; and even so---SO WHAT, it won't kill you.

[dslyank]

18 hours ago, Eli said:

Not for nothing but I can throw a rock and hit someone in the medical field who disagrees with your son. Not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but just that even people in the medical community don't agree.

And yes the UA basketball team should be able to make a basket more than 30% of the time. Of course there are medical professionals who disagree about how to fight/treat/prevent covid. All I am saying (and I am not and did not attribute the statement to my son) is that the VAST majority of health professionals believe covid can be eradicated and people who deny the science are hurting the cause. My son does cancer research and environmental research in a very recognized school of public health. He is no way involved in covid research and I only used him as an example IMHO to follow the science.

ps I don't know how much masks help or not. I wear mine to protect myself and others, because MOST scientist say it does. But what I do believe if UA is going to have a policy (and now they have no choice) it is Benson job to enforce the policy (not sure how, but that's what they pay him the big bucks for).

And here is something to ponder. When covid was first reported (and I have not checked the # since) it was stated that people had a .3% (less the one %) chance of getting covid from surfaces. Yet it did not stop people from pretty much wiping out the world supply of hand sanitizer. 

[Clickclack]

45 minutes ago, dslyank said:

I am NOT advocating shots for life. Just the opposite.  If everyone or 80-90% whatever the heard immunity # was/is got the first round of shots when recommended, we would NOT be in the position we are now. Of course there were rollout issues; age issues, and experts were hesitant to say who should and who should not get shots and when. It was a learning curve for everyone obviously and maybe even some gambling by researchers. But absolutely the health care field as a whole DOES feel that covid can and WILL be if not totally eradicated be controllable. The more people cooperate the sooner this can be accomplished.

And you can soft petal it all you want but Delta was absolutely positively caused by the un-vaccinated. They were the carriers who brought this on; and sure vaccinated people got the disease; but it came from the un-vaccinated and would have been exponentially less potent, less serious illnesses, & less deaths if more people would have gotten vaccinated when it became available.

You are a lot younger than me and have a chance to live to see CANCER eradicated in your life time. For medical researchers covid is a toy compared to what has been accomplished in CANCER research already and what WILL be done in the future. Like it or not, believe or not Pfisser & Moderna, JJ, Albany Molecular came up with (at least the start) of cure for covid in what 3 months. IMHO don't need to sweat taking a dose every six months; and even so---SO WHAT, it won't kill you.

Where we'd be if everyone took at shot? tell it to Israel where 90% of population was vaccinated and still got whacked by Delta. To pin the emergence of Delta on the unvaccinated by choice lumping into that group even those with natural immunity is quite the reach that ignores the reality that vaccinated people spread it just as readily as those with natural immunity or no immunity even if the duration of spread is reduced. As for soft peddling, I see we've move away from absolutes such as Covid doesn't have to be and won't be a reality if everyone just gets the shot to we will learn to live with it. Precisely! No one reputable thinks Covid will ever be fully eradicated like Polio but rather it will become endemic and is already on the way to being so. Like I said, look at Israel, Canada is 83% vaxxed and still locked down as is Australis 80% plus. 

IFR for age group 0-34 is .004%...so no...I'm not going to force the jab on folks that have antibodies and risk any chance of an adverse effect as the cost/benefit analysis is not in the favor of vaccine. As you move up the age group and IFR rate goes up those folks should understand the risk and act appropriately. 

I'm not adverse to taking it but I don't see a need right now. I've had covid, tested for antibodies and my immune response is comparable to that of a fully immunized person. There have been many studies done on this, your ignorance is not an excuse to force vaccinate everyone. Until the focus changes from everyone jab needed or not, to advocating for those who do not have antibodies to get vaccinated you will have folks dig their heels in. The one size fits all approach will not lead to greater acceptance of vaccine. From this point on, the uptake of vaccine will slow as those who want it have gotten it. 

My stance is, if you don't have antibodies folks should get vaccinated. If I'm in a group of people or know someone who has a genuine fear of Covid, I will put my own feelings aside and wear a mask to put them at ease (that's why I wear my mask when others don't in SEFCU) as a basic human courtesy but I'm not going to get behind a forced vaccination program needed or not.  

As for SO WHAT, it won't kill you...tell it to the people injured by the vaccine that needed to be pulled for clotting and heart inflammation issues. You can take your cavalier "so what" and kicks rocks. I'm sure you knew that they pulled the Janssen and A-Zenaca vaccine, they've since been put back on the market but with warnings for things like Guillain-Barré syndrome and your response is SO WHAT...amazing. 

You're vaccinated, what's the problem?

Edited December 14, 2021 by Clickclack

[blorp]

6 hours ago, Clickclack said:

Imagine getting fired for not taking a flu shot. 

You may not get fired for it, but you are often forced to walk around with the equivalent of a dunce cap. I briefly worked at a hospital and employees who weren't vaccinated against the flu had to mask, wear gloves, gown, and face shield when interacting with patients and preface every interaction with a lengthy speech about how they opted to not get the flu shot. The shame of it forced a lot of people who may have otherwise been on the fence into getting the shot. Unfortunately, people seem to be a lot more immune to shame than they were even 10 years ago.