Be sure to read today’s TU letter to the editor

cwdickens · February 14, 2023

Coming from someone who has repeatedly stated our MBB Team should save their best for the last game of the season against UVM for some misguided reasoning, what you have said above comes as no surprise. Your statements have no basis in fact, vague generalization and are just made to satisfy your personal agenda. Am I right to conclude that New Mexico State University went too far to suspend its MBB season for numerous cases of hazing by your standards and the potential victims should have tolerated their abuse.

So once again, Luke should be able to present his side of the story whether in the criminal and/or civil courts. Killings can take the opportunity to defend him and set the record straight.

godanesgo99 · February 14, 2023

1 hour ago, cwdickens said:

Coming from someone who has repeatedly stated our MBB Team should save their best for the last game of the season against UVM for some misguided reasoning, what you have said above comes as no surprise. Your statements have no basis in fact, vague generalization and are just made to satisfy your personal agenda. Am I right to conclude that New Mexico State University went too far to suspend its MBB season for numerous cases of hazing by your standards and the potential victims should have tolerated their abuse.

So once again, Luke should be able to present his side of the story whether in the criminal and/or civil courts. Killings can take the opportunity to defend him and set the record straight.

First off, it depends on what the hazing was. I know nothing of that case, so I'll comment on your question with absolutely no knowledge. If the hazing was making kids run laps or carrying the bags of the seniors on the team, I have no issue with that. If it was physical abuse or sexual in nature, or forced drinking, or something that is illegal or has the potential to cause real harm, then it shouldn't happen and yes people should be fired or kicked off teams. My view on hazing is the newspaper test. If the full true story was on the cover of the paper, could you present it positively as team building and growth, or would it be 100% negative.

I have been pretty clear that Luke should present his case, and if what actually happened doesn't match a coach hyping up a team playing with no energy or edge, then I will join the chorus of fire DK. The story, as presented, of it being a pregame hype circle and coach trying to get players to play angry, is not a problem in my mind. Even if it included minor physical contact. Luke should have his day in court and present his case. I'm just not abandoning our coach until I hear evidence that is worse than what has been presented so far, and I urge everyone else to have the same opinion. Our school has a pretty bad history of jumping to conclusions and canceling people wrongly. Look at the bus incident a few years ago. Everyone jumped to cancel a kid and threaten him until the real story came out. So I repeat, unless you were there and can tell us all what really happened, I stay with innocent until proven guilty. If there was a case where a kid should sue the school it would be that one.

Also FYI:

I never seriously said "save their best for the end of season and the Vermont game". I made tongue in cheek jokes about that being the only meaningful game left as the season has been over for a couple weeks. Ending the year in a win is the only possible silver lining. They aren't making the AE playoffs. At this point I'll be surprised if they win another game. We have used the ending the season on a win joke for years as a way to say it's over and there are no playoffs. Lately it's been a joke used for Maine or Bing. Now it's painful to use it on our own team. You really need to check your own intelligence if you ever thought that was a serious suggestion of what the team should do. It was me joking about the only possible silver lining we could get from this dreadful season.

Edited February 14, 2023 by godanesgo99

bob87 · February 14, 2023

9 minutes ago, godanesgo99 said:

Also FYI:

I never seriously said "save the best their best for the end of season and the Vermont game". I made tongue in cheek jokes about that being the only meaningful game left as the season has been over for a couple weeks. Ending the year in a win is the only possible silver lining. They aren't making the AE playoffs. At this point I'll be surprised if they win another game. We have used the ending the season on a win joke for years as a way to say it's over and there are no playoffs. Lately it's been a joke used for Maine or Bing. Now it's painful to use it on our own team. You really need to check your own intelligence if you ever thought that was a serious suggestion of what the team should do. It was me joking about the only possible silver lining we could get from this dreadful season.

Except it wouldn't be a silver lining.

As far as the topic at hand.

I know a couple of things.

1) The actions were bad enough to warrant a 5 game suspension.

2)The way the suspension was handled was ridiculous. A 5 game suspension announced the off-season would generally mean the first 5 regular season games. Not let's add 2 exhibition games to the schedule instead of the normal closed scrimmages and count those for the suspension and then skip LCC from the suspension just because and end up with regular season games 1,2 and 4.

Certainly this administration has earned no benefit of the doubt here. We will see how the case proceeds and if anything changes perception.

godanesgo99 · February 14, 2023

17 minutes ago, bob87 said:

Except it wouldn't be a silver lining.

As far as the topic at hand.

I know a couple of things.

1) The actions were bad enough to warrant a 5 game suspension.

2)The way the suspension was handled was ridiculous. A 5 game suspension announced the off-season would generally mean the first 5 regular season games. Not let's add 2 exhibition games to the schedule instead of the normal closed scrimmages and count those for the suspension and then skip LCC from the suspension just because and end up with regular season games 1,2 and 4.

Certainly this administration has earned no benefit of the doubt here. We will see how the case proceeds and if anything changes perception.

Again, the silver lining thing is a joke. Funny to be able to say we were one of 6 teams to end on a win. It's a JOKE to passive aggressively make fun of a loser team.

On the other points you make:

1. This means nothing. The school has a zero contact policy so some punishment had to happen. The fact that he wasn't fired implies one of two things:

A. That the contact was normal hype circle stuff and not intentional harm, and as I have maintained: normal and accepted locker room behavior. Not a criminal assault.

Or:

B. It was worse and the school just bowed to community pressure.

I choose to believe A until some real information comes out that states otherwise. See bus incident mentioned above. Let's get to the bottom of the real story before passing judgement.

2. Agreed that was a terrible decision and crazy. This is a reason to fire Benson, not Killings. Unless of course A was the answer above, then the suspension was BS in the first place and was just something that had to happen to appease HR. Either way the handling of the suspension was terrible and shouldn't have been allowed to play out this way.

At the end of the day, my position is that none of us know what really happened. In the absence of real evidence and first hand accounts, I go with the story that has been presented, which I have no problem with. When more info comes out and some first hand accounts become public, my opinion can change quickly. Innocent until proven guilty. Defended from a kid that has an axe to grind because he wasn't getting a scholarship. Killings admitted that contact happened. This honesty buys credibility that it was hype circle contact and not singled out assault.

Edited February 14, 2023 by godanesgo99

Eli · February 14, 2023

16 hours ago, McFan said:

While clearly some feel that physical contact (not boxing out or moving a kid into position on the court) by a coach on a player is ok, it is no longer acceptable. You can think it should or shouldn't be, but it isn't. That's also a fact. One side has presented their case in court and publicly (fact). The other side continues to stonewall (fact). Does that make them guilty in a court of law? No. Is it suspicious behavior to many of us? Absolutely. If I'm accused of this (no matter what my attorney tells me) I'm out there giving my side of the story. I'm getting assistant coaches to tell my story too. I'm leaking. I'm screaming. Yet, nothing. Silence. Silence from the top to the bottom. Still not guilty in a court of law but I've seen/heard enough. OJ wasn't found guilty in a court of law but he was guilty.

Add to it that we have 1 win in a pretty terrible conference and my scales of justice have been fully tilted.

13 hours ago, bob87 said:

Except it wouldn't be a silver lining.

As far as the topic at hand.

I know a couple of things.

1) The actions were bad enough to warrant a 5 game suspension.

2)The way the suspension was handled was ridiculous. A 5 game suspension announced the off-season would generally mean the first 5 regular season games. Not let's add 2 exhibition games to the schedule instead of the normal closed scrimmages and count those for the suspension and then skip LCC from the suspension just because and end up with regular season games 1,2 and 4.

Certainly this administration has earned no benefit of the doubt here. We will see how the case proceeds and if anything changes perception.

This and what Bob said is nail on head...what a joke.

I don't need to hear or see anything else to know this whole thing has been an absolute embarrassment to the program and university. I don't care if he blew a dandelion in Luke's face...if it is against the code of conduct for anyone that is part of the program, he needs to be gone. Yesterday. All of you people quasi-defending him by 'waiting for his day in court' are crazy, if you ask me. And we know for a fact that it was bad enough to warrant a fine and suspension; literally ANY OTHER FACT presented after this is extra.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Eli

dslyank · February 14, 2023

12 hours ago, bob87 said:

1) The actions were bad enough to warrant a 5 game suspension.

2)The way the suspension was handled was ridiculous. A 5 game suspension announced the off-season would generally mean the first 5 regular season games. Not let's add 2 exhibition games to the schedule instead of the normal closed scrimmages and count those for the suspension and then skip LCC from the suspension just because and end up with regular season games 1,2 and 4.

I agree with 2; the suspension should have been first 5 games, no pussy footing around. But 1 is totally wrong or minimally SPECULATION. 1 does not prove a thing; does NOT prove an incident even occurred or if it what the incident was. First of all the suspension and fine had zero to do with what the incident was. The fine and suspension were reported for the coach NOT reporting the incident. The fine and suspension were 5 months after the so called incident. Any number of reasons why DK accepted the punishment {I will not repeat the list of reasons again.} To say the actions were bad enough are purely speculation on your part. Show me proof/FACTS the actions were bad. #1 is your opinion and you a certainly are entitled to it; but does make it RIGHT🤨.

Eli · February 14, 2023

1 hour ago, dslyank said:

1 does not prove a thing; does NOT prove an incident even occurred or if it what the incident was. First of all the suspension and fine had zero to do with what the incident was. The fine and suspension were reported for the coach NOT reporting the incident.

lolwut?

1) You don't have to report something that didn't happen. Right? You only have to report something that happened.

2) Clearly something happened or otherwise #1 in my list would apply.

3) (according to you) The suspension was handed down because #1 DID happen and he failed to self-report. You admit that there was an 'incident'.

So stating that what's being shared so far does not prove that an incident occurred is insane because you also admit an incident occurred otherwise a fine and suspension would not have been issued.

TL;DR: People who believe this talentless 'mental' leader shouldn't be fired yesterday:

Edited February 14, 2023 by Eli

bob87 · February 14, 2023

3 hours ago, dslyank said:

I agree with 2; the suspension should have been first 5 games, no pussy footing around. But 1 is totally wrong or minimally SPECULATION. 1 does not prove a thing; does NOT prove an incident even occurred or if it what the incident was. First of all the suspension and fine had zero to do with what the incident was. The fine and suspension were reported for the coach NOT reporting the incident. The fine and suspension were 5 months after the so called incident. Any number of reasons why DK accepted the punishment {I will not repeat the list of reasons again.} To say the actions were bad enough are purely speculation on your part. Show me proof/FACTS the actions were bad. #1 is your opinion and you a certainly are entitled to it; but does make it RIGHT🤨.

Obviously something happened. There wouldn't be a suspension and fine otherwise. Obviously I don't have the details and have no way of judging if i would think 5 games for the actions is too harsh, too lenient or exactly what it should be. My thought with the way the suspension was "administered" is more likely too lenient as I don't see how I could give Benson the benefit of the doubt here.

godanesgo99 · February 14, 2023

Something did happen. DK admitted it. If it is the way I choose to interpret what has been released so far, I don't even think it should have been reported. As I have stated numerous times, the "incidental contact" is and SHOULD be normal locker room behavior for a group of adults playing a contact sport and going to battle as a team. It became an issue because the player's parents complained. UA's policy states that there should be zero contact, and that it should have been reported. The zero contact policy is geared towards professors in a classroom, not a coach in a locker room or on the field/court. I have seen coaches slap a player on the back after coming off the field/court numerous times - both for positive and negative reasons. High fives after a great play. Hugs after wins. A coach slapping a players helmet after a dumb move. Technically per UA policy, each of these items should be reported and dealt with. None are ever reported. Its dumb, but it is what it is. When the parent complained to administration, the policy had to have some action taken. According to the investigation, it wasn't bad enough to fire, but they had to give some punishment under the policy to appease HR. Thus the suspension.

Was it bad enough to dismiss? Did they only not dismiss because of pressure from community leaders and reasons of race? We do not know. There is not enough actual factual information released to public to know for sure at this point. This is why some of us choose to stay with innocent until proven guilty.
Was the suspension handled poorly? Definitely.
Is it a bad look for the Athletic Department? 100% at the moment. More transparency would help, but since they are silent, it makes them appear guilty.
Should DK be fired over it? Need more information. As it has been presented so far, I say a resounding no. Others disagree.
Should Benson be fired over it? There are lots of reasons to want Benson gone. Not sure if this is one of them yet. I will say no if this was him protecting an employee that was being railroaded over an incident that is normal and part of being on an athletic team. If the situation was worse than has been presented so far, then yes it should be both Benson and Killings on their way to the unemployment line - along with anyone else involved in a cover up.

This is my last comment on the subject (I hope) until more info comes out or something major happens, but I will maintain - incidental contact in a hype circle is normal. A coach getting in players faces and yelling, and even shoving to get adrenaline up is normal and perfectly OK. In this environment, a player might get pushed, and might hit the locker. I have absolutely no problem with this - even if it was my son. I would be mad at a coach that didn't do these things. It is his job to fire up the players and get the most out of them.

Singling a player out and slapping across the face or punching them is not ok. Embarrassing them individually in front of their peers is not ok.

DK has admitted to the first example, and this is what all of the reports say happened. Luke is accusing him of the latter and this is why he is suing. I choose to believe that it was the normal locker room hype circle, and the story Luke is telling is embellished because he didn't get his trophy or scholarship. Until we hear otherwise, I will support our coach with what he admitted to. Let's wait for the video of what actually happened on that CDTA bus before holding protests.

Edited February 14, 2023 by godanesgo99

cwdickens · February 14, 2023

Enough, enough already GoDaneGo99 with your manifestos on what you believe. The sun will shine no matter how many times you repeat yourself. Most of us have said enough on this topic for a lifetime.

Edited February 14, 2023 by cwdickens
clarify

godanesgo99 · February 14, 2023

10 minutes ago, cwdickens said:

Enough, enough already GoDaneGo99 with your manifestos on what you believe. The sun will shine no matter how many times you repeat yourself. Most of us have said enough on this topic for a lifetime.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Don't care what I have to say? Just scroll over it and ignore it. Block me if you want. At least I don't post cut and paste stuff from other sites like instagram and ESPN that never format in a readable way on a cell phone browser.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Don't care for what I say? Ignore it!

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Don't care for what I say? Ignore it!

blorp · February 14, 2023

41 minutes ago, godanesgo99 said:

. In this environment, a player might get pushed, and might hit the locker. I have absolutely no problem with this - even if it was my son. I would be mad at a coach that didn't do these things. It is his job to fire up the players and get the most out of them.

You'd be mad if a coach didn't shove your son? Wtf is wrong with you? You've got some serious issues, dude

Edited February 14, 2023 by blorp

Dane96 · February 14, 2023

5 minutes ago, blorp said:

You'd be mad if a coach didn't shove your son? Wtf is wrong with you? You've got some serious issues, dude

Succinctly stated, on point.

Tracking back to the secondary issue, DK has proven to be an absolutely BRUTAL game manager/D1 HC.

I have many friends in the D1 coaching committee along with administrators. If GD99 or dyslank think people are not talking about the UA hoops program and the overall athletic department in a negative light, well...you just don't understand what is really going on out there.

jimbo · February 14, 2023

I picture a hype circle as the athletic equivalent of a mosh pit. Some pushing, bumping, maybe stumbling, yelling, getting worked up, getting rid of some tension, building some aggression. I never picture it as a threatening environment whether by coaches or other players. Never been in one so this is a legit question. Could there have been an accidental hit, contact with a locker or wall, accidental whack in the face. Sure. No idea what happened. What happens after is more important and the crux of this matter. Was it addressed immediately and not reported? Don’t know. Who did Luke tell if anyone? I don’t know. I do agree that there was zero reason for a suspension unless 1) an incident occurred and 2) if it was not reported. 1 leads to 2. If investigation showed it to be serious enough to warrant dismissal, then the AD and President get pulled into it and their actions are called into question. In any case, it’s a damn shame and hopefully it will be resolved sooner rather than later.

dslyank · February 14, 2023

23 minutes ago, Dane96 said:

Succinctly stated, on point.

Tracking back to the secondary issue, DK has proven to be an absolutely BRUTAL game manager/D1 HC.

I have many friends in the D1 coaching committee along with administrators. If GD99 or dyslank think people are not talking about the UA hoops program and the overall athletic department in a negative light, well...you just don't understand what is really going on out there.

Most obvious that this whole affair has/had put UA in a negative light; never said otherwise. How it is ultimately handled will help mitigate that at least partially, probably not entirely. But most certainly Speculation and condemnation without FACTS, witnesses, and proof does NOT HELP in anyway IMHO.

Not sure exactly what you are alluding to here. If you are recommending firing Benson, there are multitude of reasons do to so IMHO. If you are recommending firing DK, there may be reasons for that also. If you are saying firing them because of the negative light this situation has created; what I’m saying is that will not negate the negative light you speak off. And in fact if the incident is ultimately PROVEN wrong or overblown or minor; firings will only exasperate the negative light.

Be sure to read today’s TU letter to the editor

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