Martin and performance

[Patch]

2) When I judge value, I look at proformance.

POINTS per shot....on the ESPN page. Let's look at this together.

 

UABANY TEAM POINTS PER SHOT/STARTING PLAYERS

 

1) lEVI 1.15

2) MARTIN 1.09

3) iATI 1.07

4) Q.. 1.05

 

- Big Growl 01 -

 

After the Sacred Heart game Todd had taken 25 shots and scored 24 pts 0.96. Todd is struggling - in the LIU game it was turnovers in the Sacred Heart game I heard it was his defense at the start of the game and his lack of positioning and screening offensively.

 

He's struggling if he hangs in there and learns to execute he'll be fine. He has alot to offer but the Danes margin for error is slim.

Edited December 22, 2003 by Patch

[Dane96]

Seriously Patch...you analysis is really shoddy. I WAS AT THE SACRED HEART GAME! Unless you got that info from Brown or his staff, you are really mistaken. Martin was very active when he was in. He had one airball three pointer (a ill-advised shot). He was very active, however I will grant you that he "looked like a freshman." He played 9 minutes or so because Janus and Courtney were having very big games.

 

All you people need to stop analyzing kids after 6 college games. It is a big step up. Is he a "poor man's walton." Hell no, not yet. Will he be decent. Absolutely. Remember...the guys may read these boards (I think you used to preach it). Your analysis for the last two weeks on him is way off. The kid is guarding much quicker players at the two then he did in high school (where he was primarly a 3/4). That tires a person out.

 

BTW, anyone who thinks that Levine is sitting next season...well it is not happening. I agree with D2k and the Prof. My lineup was potent, and you may see it at times, but Jordan's pure strength and rebounding abilities will allow a three guard lineup (though short) to be successfull. Iati, Jordan, Wilson, Levine, Zoellner will be your first 5. Levine is hands down the most consistant player we have and the more an more I see him, the more I understand how he played so well versus Torin Frances in high school.

[professor]

Are you sure you were at the Sacred Heart game?? Martin's man scored the first 7 pts. of the game for Sacred Heart. He did not guard!

[Patch]

"Dane 96 you are the shoddy one read my post"

 

Seriously Patch...you analysis is really shoddy. I WAS AT THE SACRED HEART GAME! Unless you got that info from Brown or his staff, you are really mistaken. Martin was very active when he was in. He had one airball three pointer (a ill-advised shot). He was very active, however I will grant you that he "looked like a freshman." He played 9 minutes or so because Janus and Courtney were having very big games. - Dane 96

 

Todd is struggling - in the LIU game it was turnovers in the Sacred Heart game I heard it was his defense at the start of the game and his lack of positioning and screening offensively.

 

He's struggling if he hangs in there and learns to execute he'll be fine. He has alot to offer but the Danes margin for error is slim. -Patch

 

I stated the truth - and I also stated he has a lot to offer! He guarded a guy avg 10ppg and gave him 7 to start the game and he shot an airball three and missed several offensive assignments all in 9 minutes and we are in a 1 point game in the last minute or so.

 

He has alot to offer but the Danes margin for error is slim. -Patch

 

What should we do post that he's the next coming...... even though he's struggling which is common for Freshmen. I've also posted that even though Iati is twice Rookie of the Week he has struggled.

 

Get a grip and talk truthful and honest if these young guys read this site all they have to do is look in the mirror and ask that guy and he'll tell them the same thing.

[Dane96]

Patch...You are flat out wrong. I was at the game. Martin is guarding quicker, faster and stronger guards than probably half the small forwards he played all year. Talk about a player playing out of position... Those points were scored by a guy he should not have been guarding...PERIOD. And let's talk honest...were you at the game? If you were you would have seen his lack of footspeed to be able to guard a much quicker player than him. Did you also see that he was active all over the place, having his hands on the ball alot? All I am saying is A) Janis and Courtney played big games, thus dispelling the need for Martin to play. If Martin was playing the three he would be posting much better numbers.

 

And I was wondering who you got your info from. The reason I asked that was because while he looked a little misguided at times...so did the rest of the team. Every player, but Levi, was missing their assigments. To point out Martin only is unfair and also misinformed. When you say the kid sits because he was missing assignments...well that better come from the coaching staff or it is misinformed. Either you heard it from the staff or you didnt.

 

He is not great...but not bad at all.

[Patch]

"Dane 96"

 

Because the Danes are shorthanded we usually have everyone mismatched.

 

Those points were scored by a guy he should not have been guarding...PERIOD. -Dane 96

 

If you say he should not have been guarding someone then we should get rid of Coach Brown and his staff and hire you or not play Martin very much at all, because Courtney will defend the 2s and Levi will defend the 3s and Martin is not strong enough to guard the 4s and 5s.

 

If you read my posts I stated "I was not at the game" and I heard from very reliable sources who know basketball and know the coaching staff.

 

So you Dane 96 are flat out wrong and have no clue what UA was trying to do against Sacred Heart.

 

Bottom line Martin has been unproductive offensively and defensively in the last 2 games which we had opportunities to win. (30 min, 1-7 FG, 0-3 3PFG, 3 Reb, 6 TOs)

 

As for playing the 3 maybe we should sit Levi so Todd can prove you right.

[professor]

DAne 96,

 

Learn the game and learn it quickly if you are going to post. Martin is a small forward and a better athlete than Levi. Martin was guarding #10 Samuels who is a 6'5 small forward. Levi was guarding 6' Maurice Bailey who is All NEC and held his own.

 

Samuels finished with 18 and got it going early thanks to Martin. Todd was active offensively early and the Danes had nothing to show for it. He did not score!

 

During the course of a game players miss assignments. Martin missed 3 or 4 in a row. Who else should he have guarded? #4 and #20 were Sacred Hearts pg and 2G and best players and leading scorers.

 

I don't want to hear the crap that you play in leagues or that you played at Albany which I find hard to believe because of your lack of knowledge and common sense.

 

Can't wait to hear your analysis on tonight's game on this board!

[professor]

Oh yeah! Bonehead 96, Martin started at small forward as always! Get a clue!

[Patch]

Bottom line is it would benefit the Danes a great deal to have Martin start to produce.

 

This isn't HS he has to learn there are adjustments and changes going on all the time. I think(I know that's hard to believe) Martin is struggling because he's thinking more than reacting. In HS the game was much simpler now he being asked to react differently game to game and even situation to situation.

 

If he starts to produce we will have a greater chance of being successful. Let's hope Todd has a solid game the Danes WIN and everyone can have a smile on their face for the Holidays!!

[Dane96]

Patch...you're posts are Jekyl and Hyde. You will rip someone but say they are young. You will say you dont know much but "someone who knows" told you. You will be rah-rah then a coach. Listen as for basketball IQ I think it is fair to say I know a little more than you. I was always the "poor man's everything" because of my size...so I listened and learned.

 

I think you are a very good poster but at times you go off the deep end...like we all do. I was at the game, I know hoops and Martin sat for two reasons...JOHNSON and PIPKUS. He was not needed down low and, as you stated, there was no need for him at two because BROWN IS SMART saw a mismatch with footspeed and put Johnson on the floor.

 

So, unless you talked to Brown or watched tape you wouldnt understand what went on on that court. And another thing....one great thing about Brown is he speaks very candidly. If he had a problem with Martin's assignments you are damn well sure it would have been heard on the post-game (which it wasnt) or in the paper. I highly doubt he or the staff opened there mouth to someone outside the program if he was that frustrated with Martin's game knowing how fragile this team is right now. Brown has flat out said that he thinks Martin has ability but he needs to hit the weight room. That is something that can happen in the offseason (cf. Jamar and Levi). And it takes longer for Big Men to develop (especially low-major) than a guard who may make a lot of turnovers but generally can play against other guards in a quicker time period. As for Martin's unproductiveness...the Kid is 6 months out of high school. As I said...evaluate him at seasons end. Want a list of guys who sucked there first year and then became solid players? Or how about MJ...yes Michael Jordan, the same guy who was CUT from his high school team. Not comparing Martin of course, but I am saying dont judge the kid after 6 games. I think his Siena game is closer (due to the higher skill level of players) of what he can do rather than what he does against LIU and Sacred Heart....but I dont know that until he plays a full-season.

 

 

Now out of curiousity, who do you think Martin was defending, a chump? The man you speak of, Samuels (the 7 straight points) was an All-NEC Rookie team member who ended up with 19 pts on 50% shooting with 5 boards and 5 assists against us...not a good job by anyone on the team. The other guards, Wellington averaged 13 and 5 coming in the game and Bailey was averaging 17.4 including 27 on B.C. and 15 on UCONN. All three are very fine players with a year of college hoops under there belt. Two are around 6feet and the other, Samuels is 6'4 and lightening quick. That is why Johnson came in.

 

As for me having no clue...once again...strap on the sneakers and play at a level higher than AAU or coach for at least 5 years...then come talk to me!

[DOWNTOWN]

Martin was assigned a job to do and he didn't get it done. Plain and simple, nothing personal. If the team has a game plan and prepares for an opponent for better than a week and then you go out and miss assignments right away then it is imminent that the hook is coming. Freshmen or not that is unacceptable. Some players will sulk and regress, some accept the fact that they erred, albeit begrudgingly, and make a committment to not letting that happen to them again. I don't know if Martin realizes it or not but he may never be in a better position to log big minutes than he is right now. With the squad we have if he were to concentrate on his defensive assignments, not turn the ball over and REBOUND.........I don't see how he could be kept off the floor.

 

The idea that we shouldn't comment on players or be critical because "the guys may read this board"...........well, welcome to D1 hoops, if they can't handle posts from us has beens, never was's and wannabees then they better pack up their pajamas, their slippers with the bunnies on em' and their pacifiers and head back home where it is safe and their old coaches will pat them on their heads and tell them how great they were in high school. It aint personal..........it's business!

 

P.S. Prof, FYI,I think you make a typographical error, it is Dane 96, not Boneheand 96.

 

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

 

BEAT LEHIGH!

[Patch]

Dane 96

 

I am going to detatch myself from this fruitless conversation

 

Listen as for basketball IQ I think it is fair to say I know a little more than you. -Dane 96

 

As for me having no clue...once again...strap on the sneakers and play at a level higher than AAU or coach for at least 5 years...then come talk to me! - Dane 96

 

 

I will end my conversation with you on this note. I have played at a much higher level than ridiculous AAU and my coaching resume would lock your JAWS. You are truly a "Horse's Ass".

 

Have a great Holiday season.

 

Go DANES beat Lehigh.

[Dane96]

Professor you crack me up. Samuels is a third guard. And he was All-NEC ROOKIE. Yeah...he plays the three...but he is a guard! Go check out the SHU website. I forgot...you are all-knowing.

 

Yes, players miss assignments...but he didnt miss three or four in a row...he was always around the ball and bottom line...he wasnt quick enough for a 6'4 180 guard. But...that isnt an implication that his game sucks. That was my point...and it was the opposite of the point Patch was making...that the kid just isnt getting it done. He was mismatched...plain and simple. And another thing. If you asked Levi to lock down samuels...he would have. But bottom line...Samuels didnt tear up Martin...he tore up UA.

 

And as for him getting it going early versus Martin (as the reason he tore it up), Samuels didnt score from 17:11 till 12:04....that isn't exactly being on fire because of one guy. His next bucket game at 1 minute. So, once again my point that Professor and Patch refuse to accept is this: MARTIN WAS OUTMATCHED AGAINST A GUARD. MARTIN IS NOT A DI GUARD. The better matchup would have been Levi. With Pipikus taking care of business down low UA could afford to put a lineup that was quicker and smaller out there. Martin got pulled because others were doing well. And finally...you dont judge a freshman after 6 games...I think Professor said that a bit back.

 

And yes Professor...I was one of the 600 plus who watched the game! Now why don't you two go exhale and pick on Hillaire for not being consistant of late (that was sarcasm for the two of you).

[Dane96]

Downtown...I agree with you 100%. My point was that Patch constantly placates and then retracts. The kid was mismatched...and couldnt handle it. I agree...pull him...brown did that. But if you judge him on 6 games...well that is wrong. Lots of guys suck early on, though I think you are right, Martin needs to realize this is his best chance to get minutes for next year.

 

As for Patch and his coaching...well...I wont get into it. The flex offense is long gone my man.

[professor]

I don't know Patches resume but it seems that he knows what he is talking about. Martin is a small forward and must defend the other teams small forward. Samuels started as Sacred Hearts small forward so that's who Martin guarded.

 

Dane96,

 

I'd love to know your name, years played, and production. I'd love to see the stats!