$5MM Donation

[Dane96]

First, its hypothetical my kids are in school for $10K/each.  Its called daycare.

 

I still dissagree.  Take the toll bridges in NYC.  If they did away with the tolls and forced everyones taxes up then I am subsidizing those in NYC (or those that travel to NYC).  I am not subsidizing the bridge.  This unfair to me, in my opinion.  If I choose to not use the bridge it is my choice but I am subsidizing.

 

Second, I am a big fan of the State University system.  Is it perfect?  Absolutely not.  Is it affordable?  I think so.  Does it offer an above average education at a below average price?  Again absolutely.  Is there ample opportunity for those with the desire and intelligence?  I think yes.

 

I guess we just have a difference of opinion on who should pay for an individuals education.

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Well, try this opinion:

 

Without funding bridges, shipping would go back to rail, at a much higher cost, so you, the end user, would have prices jacked up.

 

Maybe you would prefer the system in just about every other country: taxed to the gills by the govt to pay for national medicine, national education, national welfare, etc.

 

This is not a socio-political discussion, however it is our duty to provide an education for state residents. It makes our state stronger by having highly educated students graduate (as long as the state retains them as residents).

 

You may not think your toll money or education $$ helps you in the short run...but it has ancillary effects in the long run.

[McFan]

Good points all.

 

But you do mention "national medicine, national education, national welfare", and that is exactly what I am arguing against. I like our system and agree with helping those that need help or supporting things that are for the common good (hospitals and airports etc.). But supporting a high percentage of someones education that has no financial need is not something I can agree with.

 

The State University system is very good and I would think 20% public funding is fair. But should it be 30%, maybe, 50%, no. Again those that truly need I can assist.

 

A big reason for not retaining our graduates is the high taxes. More to fund the public university system promotes even higher taxes.

 

Good discussion. Odd place for it.

[Dane96]

Good points all.

 

But you do mention "national medicine, national education, national welfare", and that is exactly what I am arguing against.  I like our system and agree with helping those that need help or supporting things that are for the common good (hospitals and airports etc.).  But supporting a high percentage of someones education that has no financial need is not something I can agree with.

 

The State University system is very good and I would think 20% public funding is fair.  But should it be 30%, maybe, 50%, no.  Again those that truly need I can assist.

 

A big reason for not retaining our graduates is the high taxes.  More to fund the public university system promotes even higher taxes.

 

Good discussion.  Odd place for it.

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Actually, the reason we dont retain young people is not high taxes, rather the lack of a upward mobile job market with high pay. The only place anyone can complain about taxes in NY happens to be NYC; you get nailed for city, federal and state tax. While our taxes may be a bit higher than other markets, we have a heck of a good system of services. Again, it is all ancillary affect. We dont use the NY transit system if you are in upstate, however the ease of use allows more workers to get to more business to ply their trade which, in turn, allows for the state to tax foreign (both interstate and international) corps and our domestic (NYS) corps.

 

Should funding be 50% for education....HELL NO. It should, however, be larger than 20%. I worked in the state government, sat on committees, and nearly puked listening to tax breaks and grants given to onion muck farmers, et. al. Take some of that money and give 30%-45% to the state education system and it will pay larger dividends in the long run for state residents then a subsidy to an onion mucker. And yes, I am not making up the onion mucker thing....I sat in on a meeting between the onion growers of NYS and Assembyman N. Nick Perry.

 

We have the biggest, and in my opinion, most diverse educational system in the U.S., as well should be; We may be the most dynamic and diverse state in the Union.

[McFan]

The unfortunate point is that we will never cut out the onion mucker or other waste.

 

I think my taxes are relatively fair all in all. And if they would cut the waste that you seem to be very familiar with, then I have no problem dumping it into education.

 

I appreciate your input and "inside" knowledge.

[UA66]

Be careful what you say about those muckland onion farmers. We were onion farmers. Despite the fact that I went to then SUNY Albany when tuition was something like $250 per semester I still had to borrow money all the way through college because onion farmers were getting $2.50 for a hundred pounds of onions and my family couldn't even afford that small tuition (plus room and board, fees and books) for my brother and myself. Any thought of going to a private college was completely out of the question. Without the state university system neither my brother nor I would have been able to attend college. By the way, the super market price of onions back then was around $.30 per pound - that's $30 per hundred pounds - somebody but us was making a bundle.

[Dane96]

Be careful what you say about those muckland onion farmers.  We were onion farmers.  Despite the fact that I went to then SUNY Albany when tuition was something like $250 per semester I still had to borrow money all the way through college because onion farmers were getting $2.50 for a hundred pounds of onions and my family couldn't even afford that small tuition (plus room and board, fees and books) for my brother and myself.  Any thought of going to a private college was completely out of the question.  Without the state university system neither my brother nor I would have been able to attend college.  By the way, the super market price of onions back then was around $.30 per pound - that's $30 per hundred pounds - somebody but us was making a bundle.

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LOL....for real? Man, you would love the rest of that story about the Assemblyman. One of the most comical days of my life took place during that meeting. BTW...no disrespect meant; my aunt and uncle are holstein dairy farmers up in Hobart/Stamford.

 

My pt is exactly what you said.....we need SUNY to be funded to the best the state can do....and the state ain't doin' much...probably why I use the word aint.

[UA66]

Yes, for real. In later years when I would return to the "black dirt" area to visit family, I would often go for drives with my father and listen to stories he would tell of farmers who had committed suicide in despair.

 

We're getting way off base here, but my original comments about the 20% state funding were not meant to support that kind of contribution but just to point out that that is the reality of today. I suspect that it is not going to change, based upon my current experience at UMass. I totally agree with other comments that public institutions such as UAlbany will struggle if they have to rely on the good will of state government. We are also living in an era when no one wants to pay any more in taxes - in fact, the politician who promises tax cuts is the shoe-in to win elections - but everyone wants more services from government. Our left brain just doesn't know what the right brain is doing.

 

I've just finished reading the op-ed pages. Can we get back to UAlbany athletics?

[McFan]

No disrespect to the onion farmer, or any farmer for that matter. My in-laws recently sold their dairy farm upstate. But I'm not sure why I should subsidize onion farmers. Dairy farmers maybe as milk is very close to a necessity. But onions, I don't even like onions. Now peppers, that we can discuss.

[UA66]

There was a time when I didn't like onions either.

 

The contributions of farming and farms goes beyond supplying esential food and fiber. Try picturing those open spaces as parking lots, malls, and McMansions as far as the eye can see. One of the fastest grwoing segments of the economy in the northeast is tourism and that is largely dependent on the aesthetics of our rural areas.

[danefan]

There was a time when I didn't like onions either. 

 

The contributions of farming and farms goes beyond supplying esential food and fiber.  Try picturing those open spaces as parking lots, malls, and McMansions as far as the eye can see.  One of the fastest grwoing segments of the economy in the northeast is tourism and that is largely dependent on the aesthetics of our rural areas.

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Are we talking about good old Pine Island blackdirt????

[UA66]

You mean to say there are two of us "dirt farmers" on this board. I wasn't Pine Island but Florida, NY. We had onion fields at Big Island. My uncle had some fields at Snufftown.

[danefan]

You mean to say there are two of us "dirt farmers" on this board.  I wasn't Pine Island but Florida, NY.  We had onion fields at Big Island.  My uncle had some fields at Snufftown.

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I'm actually from Warwick, but my maternal granparents are born and raised onion farmers from Pine Island.

[UA66]

If their name ends in "ski", we could be related.

[danefan]

If their name ends in "ski", we could be related.

9938[/snapback]

 

Haha...sad but true (Zovistoski)

[UA66]

Lots of those in the black dirt area. No relation but went to school with Bob, younger brother of Tony, a great baseball and later softball player.

 

To get this back to UAlbany sports for those already bored to death by this thread, Anthony Sciarra, former UAlbany quarterback, is from Warwick but I doubt he ever stuck his hands in the muck.