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Interesting to take a look at the two new head coaches and the transition for both.

The women's game is alot easier to get good quickly. Why????


1. No 5/8 rule in women's hoop

2. Women have 15 total scholarships per NCAA rules


Look at the players Warner left in the program.


Hutch, Ayers, Sweetland, Schumacker, Learn, Jones, (The six best players)


Look at Pattersons recruits? James, Johnson, Major, Scipione, Maine girl,

No contributions!


Warner left the program with good players.


Brown inherited a program with Opong, Peterson, Johnson, Gallup?, Pipikis, Wyatt

. Beeten had like 7 or 8 kid's transfer. Had to follow the 5/8 rule and the NCAA allows only 13 scholarships for men.


Brown brought in studs Levine and Wilson. Probable AE All Rookie pg in Iati, solid Martin, enigma Knotts, Hughes??, studs Jordan and Zollner. Has already signed four good players for next year.


Obviously he can recruit but the program was an absolute mess.


Guy's are 1-5 now and girls 2-5. Any interesting comments????????????????

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Your last line provides all the the comment necessary. Guys 1-5, gals 2-5!!

Don't even try to compare mens versus women--they are two different worlds and I have coached both. Let Brown and Patterson complete 4 years and then we can talk. I think the women are a little healthier than the men for this year and we will have to see who shows up next year. Why are we knocking the coaches, with the injuries and defections they have had this year, who could produce a winner?? Maybe the guy coming in on December 25th----Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All.

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Great post - no reason to compare apples and oranges.


I wish both teams great success.


The Ladies seem on their way to a solid season.


The men will struggle, losing Jamar for the season and not having Hughes really put the men in a bind. Next year the men's team will be Coach Brown's first team at UA let's see what happens. On paper the 04/05 Danes look to be very, very good. Four solid Freshman coming in plus.....


Jamar will be back with his 19ppg and 50% fg shooting

Levi will be back with 2 years of double figure scoring at the DI level

Iati will be back with his 13+ scoring at the DI level

Jordan will be eligible with his 2yrs of 13+ scoring at the DI level

Das Big Man in the Middle


There will be no shortage of possible scorers we will be offensively better and with the interior presence of Zoellner - we will be better Defensively and a better defensive rebounding team.


But in reality that's why you have to play the games - right now we're better on paper only.


I wish both the Women and the Men nothing but success. Lets hope the Danes defeat Bucknell and Lehigh and all our players enter the Holiday season with smiles on their faces.

Edited by Patch
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Just to play devil's advocate to the original post, I don't see where the two extra permissible scholarships per year (15 for women vs. 13 for men) gives the women a huge advantage toward getting good faster.


All that really means is that you can push two existing players to the bench and bring in two recruits of your own if there is a head coaching change. More players is not always necessarily better, is my point.


Then, looking at the fact that Learn didn't get good til this year, you have to give all of Patterson's recruits at least that much time to see if they develop, before writing them off as garbage.


And last but not least, playing devil's advocate further, you have to look at the fact that if you're going to blame Coach Patterson for her recruits, you're essentially saying two things:


1.) Mari Warner did all of the recruiting of the current players who were heldover;

and furthermore

2.) Mari and Trina's assistants do none of the recruiting.


In Patterson's first year, two of the three assistants were heldover (I believe) from the Mari Warner era. So you're essentially saying that they had no say in either Mari's recruits (which was a positive since they turned out to be good), or that they have no say under Patterson (which is a negative since the current players don't appear to be panning out).


So which is it, if either? I think we all know it's not always the head coach deciding who to go after or following up on leads ...

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Playing Devil's advocate or not!


Your posts show you have no clue about recruiting!


First off you are right the assistants have a big part in recruiting. They go out and scout possible talent and follow up on prospects.


Then at this level especially (Low DI losing programs) the Head Coach MUST go out and evaluate the players and then close the deals on players that she/he feels will turn things around and afford her/him the opportunity to stay gainfully employed.


Last - two scholarships are huge when you take over a program with no talent and no depth. Recruiting is alot like hitting in baseball there is no way your going to bat 1.000 so the more swings you get the better chance of getting a hit. Last year for example Brown hit Homeruns with Wilson and Levine and Banks was a strikeout and we're still trying to figure out what Knotts is. This year Iati seems to be a solid hit, Martin needs time to develop and Hughes we know nothing about.


For the men, next year they bring in 4 Freshman - we'll have a better chance of going 2 for 4 than going 2 for 2 if we only had 2 schollies to offer.


If you want to talk attendance figures go right ahead because it's a ridiculous topic.


But don't venture into an a recruiting conversation unless you have some intelligent input - 2 scholarships are very big in HOOP! It's HUGE if one of those 2 affords you the opportunity to bring in a Wilson, Levine, Iati or maybe a transfer like Jordan or Zoellner.

Edited by Patch
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Good point by Patch! Tired of reading the stupid attendance comments. Stay home if you go to games to count people.


The men have a rule called the 5/8 rule. Means you can't give out more than 5 scholarships in one year and a combined 8 in two years.


If kid's leave a program in the men's game you most likely will not be able to use that scholarship for at least a full year. The women could use it immediately.


When you are handling a developing program you need as many scholarships as possible to use immediately!


Also, name one women's recruit by Patterson that has shown even a glimpse of being a decent player? Nobody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Can't wait for the attendance report on tonight's game! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I agree, they all suck, all of Patterson's recruits SUCK. Let me just say that out loud. I see no one worth a damn. I want to make that clear.


But I'm asking you, what is the reason? Which is it? I'm trying to figure the REASON why the recruits suck. I don't think it's as simple as Patterson not being able to recruit, because for quite some time I think you could say the same thing about Warner.


If some of the assistants are the same, or were for last year at least, then why did we end up with crappy players? Someone is overruling someone(s)?


Or is it really that Mari was a master recruiter (who just so happened to NOT get any good recruits in the previous few years, leading to our pitiful D-I record to date)?


I mean, Mari Warner did recruit a fairly crappy bunch of players before landing Becky, Dani, Alicia and Jen Schumacher.


I think Jones is a serviceable D-I player, but not a stud. Sweetland has improved, but didn't show much her first three years. I'd call her marginal. O'Bannon, a Warner recruit, is absolutely horrible. Speedy was also pretty bad at times, and left the program. Nicole Johnson doesn't play from that era.


Jess McGinlay was very hot and cold, but had her moments. Chris Gray was a decent defender but not much else, Shan'tel Ali didn't pan out at all. Both not up to par. Go back further ... Liz Tucker was obviously a great one; Caffell played well also. Conners, DiMicco didn't do much at all.


If you look at both my paragraphs there, I count eight that you could call "good" (Becky, Dani, Alicia, Jen, Maree, Liz, Cara). I would put two "marginal" (Sarah S and Jess McG), and I would rate seven as "busts" (Chris, Shan'tel, Marie, Dawn, Nicole, Speedy, Taryn). Obviously these are my personal ratings and you may or may not disagree.


Then go back to the beginning of the D-I era. Binghamton was kicking our asses with quite a bit of regularity, even while at the D-II level. They came up and made an immediate impact in D-I and the America East. So obviously you can't blame the changing of divisions for our lack of recruits. And Warner was working with 13, just like Patterson is, so why have we sucked for SO long?


You both missed my main point, which was if you're going to say that Patterson's recruits are bunk, and none are going to pan out .... then you're essentially saying one of the following:


a-1.) Mari was hands off, let her assistants find those good players, and those same assistants are being overlooked in their evaluations by Patterson


a-2.) Mari was hands off, let her assistants find those good players, but they suddenly can't recruit anymore


a-3.) Mari was hands off, let her assistants find those good players, but the new assistants suck so it's now canceling out the good ones


b-1.) Mari was hands on, and played a large part in her recruiting, found those kids herself, so the jury is out on the assistants


b-2.) Mari was hands on, and played a large part in her recruiting, found those kids herself, and overruled the assistants to find good players (and now those same assistants are steering Patterson wrong)


c-1.) Patterson overruled the current assistants who were holdovers from the Warner era and picked up the crappy players against their advice


c-2.) Patterson agreed with the current assistants who were holdovers from the Warner era and they all agreed on the crappy players and they all suck


d.) The assistants are crappy recruiters, and always have been, and Mari did her own recruiting over her crappy assistants, and Trina doesn't recruit well so she listened to the crappy assistants and ended up with crappy players


Which is it, or which combinations is it?

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Also, as a side post, I agree that the two scholarships can help. I'm just not sure how much, there are a lot of factors that go into that.


Like you said, the more swings you take the more hits you are going to get.


But if you look at it another way, the more swings you take, the more misses you are going to have as well.


So let's say Will had those two extra scholarship spots available to him.


Going by your post, you're rating Will as essentially a .500 hitter, a 3-1-3 hitter: three hits (Levine, Iati, Wilson), one strikeout (Banks), and three "fielder's choices" (Martin, Hughes, Knotts). (Yes, I know you put two of the hits as HR's, but I'm not going to get into slugging percentage here).


So if he had two more mythical scholarships, it's safe to say he could have gotten one hit, and either one fielder's choice (wait and see) OR one more out.


Now, the more "outs" you have, that is to say the more busts you have, the worse off you are, tying up the money for four years in a kid that sucks. The reality is that although most scholarship are renewable on an annual basis, if you recruit someone who sucks, most times you are stuck with them. You either have to force them to transfer and make it look like you didn't, or live with the mistake.


All I was trying to say is that the women don't have a huge advantage with the extra scholarships, because you can just as easily miss as you can hit.

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You're Right - Whatever you say is absolutely correct!


You're now rambling on about insignificant crap. Go count some people on the street.


It is - the way you want to percieve it.


Sometime, when you're going to get involved in a conversation - try inputting some substance.


Relax and enjoy your Holidays - get some rest.


I hope you get the Electronic Abacus you wished for.

Edited by Patch
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My electronic abacus counts exactly zero balls at your house.


I made some valid points in the last two posts, yet you dismiss them as irrelevant because you just want to rip Trina and her lack of recruiting? You don't want to provide any evidence, as I attempt to do, or to hear another point of view.


You yourself bring up the point about the hits and misses of recruiting, yet you neglect the fact that if you have two more scholarships that you could fairly easily get another dud soaking up money. I guess that's not realistic. Hell, if Scott Beeten had 15 scholarships imagine the STUDS we'd have gotten with those extra two grants? We'd be amazing! Amazingly out $30,000 per year, that is.


So sack up and give me some evidence, rather than just slamming one coaching staff and getting down on all fours for the other.


You yourself say "Warner left the program with good players."


Well I'll agree with that, and add "it's about time." Those players were pretty much all she had at the Division I level, so I guess it's "too little, too late" for the new high school coach, eh?

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Great post - no reason to compare apples and oranges.


I wish both teams great success.

The Ladies seem on their way to a solid season.


The men will struggle, losing Jamar for the season and not having Hughes really put the men in a bind. - Patch


This is Patch - I never ripped Coach Patterson in fact I have been supportive of her.


Know what you are talking about - especially if you're posting at 4AM, either go to bed and post with a clear mind or wake up and have a cup of coffee so you will atleast remeber who said what.


If you want to attack the poster who ripped Coach Patterson atleast find out who it was.


Now I hope you're sober enough to read the directions to your abacus.


You truly are pathetic.


Get a life - if you are going to go after someone for attacking a coach attack the right person.


If "Ignorance is Bliss" - Dane2K3 is the Happiest Man in the World!!!!!!


Merry Christmas

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DaneFan2K3 and Patch......you guys put Oscar and Felix to shame!


Just kiddin.......a little. Nah, you guys are passionate about the Danes and that is what this venue is for. Sometimes we all ( myself excluded) get a tad carried away.


In Patch's defense I gotta give him credit for doing his homework when it comes to the goings on at Albany.........Men's hoops seems to be his first love but it appears he follows all athletic endeavors if it concerns the Danes. I read posts of his regarding contests that he attended of Womens' BBall, Football, even track and field (or cross country, my memory fails me once again).Having said that it is obvious that the man is either retired or has a wife with a good paying job, probably both, as he undoubtedely has countless hours of free time on his hands to attend as many contests as he does, research every web site known to man, and post here daily............not to mention his responsibilities as Chairman of the Big Purple Fan Welcoming Committee. Also, I would be remiss if I did not side with him for taking offense to remarks made about him ripping coaches other than the staff of the Mens squad (Beeten etc. not included).I always felt that he went out of his way, sometimes in my humble view to a fault, to be supportive and even perhaps showed a morsel of sensitivity( Patch??) to their plight. I always thought he was a fan of Coach Patterson and the Lady Danes.



In DaneFan2k3 defense..........well, there is none! Nah, just kiddin again. How can you not admire a man who every year goes to Times Square on New Years Eve not to watch the ball drop, but to count the people!



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the man is either retired or has a wife with a good paying job, probably both, as he undoubtedely has countless hours of free time on his hands to attend as many contests as he does, research every web site known to man, and post here daily............ - DOWNTOWN


You're definitely "not the sharpest tack in the box"......


1. I wish I could afford to retire.


2.My wife gets most of my money in monthly payments.


3. I don't go to games or research websites.........


I make most of my crap up - I do have a great imagination!!!!


When I'm in Times Square for New Years Eve


I'll look for a guy with an Electronic Abacus and I'll buy him a drink.


Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to All!!!!



Edited by Patch
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A great series of posts! The humor was tremedous even for an Oldtimer. It is obvious recruiting is key at DI. Johnson and James are brand new to DI and are turning the ball over less than in November and add tremendous quickness. The other Frosh are non-factors. Clark is out and probably should red-shirt and Scipione was a huge disappointment(and probably a recruiting mistake). I thought Warner was short-changed by not being given 4 years to show improvement and I hope we do not make that same mistake with Patterson. My contacts in Viginia said we were very lucky to get her because she did a great job at W & M. Recruiting is difficult for women because the pool of impact players is smaller and you MUST have a good Fall class for success. So much for the theory, you still have to perform on the court. Happy Holidays!!!

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