2 Football players arrested

[kikuria]

I disagree, its not that these arent the kind of athletes we want representing our school. These are the KIND OF PEOPLE we dont want associated with our school. An athlete didnt committ this act or other illegal acts, a person who also happens to be an athlete did. And all of this is alleged until they are proven guilty.

Edited October 17, 2006 by kikuria

[UAalum72]

As expected, THIS makes the Times-Union's front page

Athletes charged with rape

 

While the Siena beat writer does the story on the sports page

Charges catch coaches off guard

 

Apparently no problems in high school, they've only been at college six or seven weeks, never got to play football, and they may have thrown their lives in the crapper because (if as alleged) they couldn't control themselves in the presence of a non-responsive victim.

[sunyac]

If anything, the AD and administration should be applauded for their response to this situation.  They did the right thing by suspending the kids from school and athletics pending further investigation, unlike the tact some other schools (Niagara in the MAAC comes to mind) have taken.

16845[/snapback]

Hopefully we can move from this!

Edited October 17, 2006 by sunyac

[danefan]

If anything, the AD and administration should be applauded for their response to this situation.  They did the right thing by suspending the kids from school and athletics pending further investigation, unlike the tact some other schools (Niagara in the MAAC comes to mind) have taken.

16845[/snapback]

What about the victim Quackman? Why are we applauding the AD? This is a much more serious charge to what occured at Niagara. (Baseball vs. Basketball guys)

There wasn't a helpless female involved in that case. Maybe we should applaud the victim. Hazing training etc. are we acting or reacting to cover our backs?

Day late and a dollar short ; if and I mean if the charges do stand true against those student athletes

16858[/snapback]

 

 

I disagree with your analysis of the Athletic Departments efforts. The latest actions taken by the department are not the initial counseling in this issue. They are just refreshers being done in the public eye. All student athletes are schooled on issues such as this during pre-season camp, its just not covered by the TimesUseless. Furthermore, I know from experience, that Coach Ford always discusses and warns the team about staying away from these situations during summer camp.

 

He and his staff have done so for years, even before the Duke incident.

Edited October 17, 2006 by danefan

[JonUA97]

Not for nothing and I know that I am going to get smoked from the flames after people read what I am about to say.

 

Does anyone find it strange that the DA (David Soanes) and the Guilderland Police Chief (Murley), both people might I add could not investigate their way out of a paper bag were able to make an arrest so quickly? I know that the State Police Lab is right next door but even if a kit is done 24 hours is rather rapid turnaround time. I would ask that everyone reserve judgment here of both the accuser and the accused. As mentioned in earlier posts about a Lacrosse program and their problems, I think that the arrest trigger was pulled rather quickly. Let's face it no other reported rape on campus has ever been handled this quickly.

 

ATL Dane said it best, let's just step back and take a breath. I just have a weird feeling about this one, there is going to be more than meets the eye.

 

SSS

[danefan]

Not for nothing and I know that I am going to get smoked from the flames after people read what I am about to say.

 

Does anyone find it strange that the DA (David Soanes) and the Guilderland Police Chief (Murley), both people might I add could not investigate their way out of a paper bag were able to make an arrest so quickly?  I know that the State Police Lab is right next door but even if a kit is done 24 hours is rather rapid turnaround time.  I would ask that everyone reserve judgment here of both the accuser and the accused.  As mentioned in earlier posts about a Lacrosse program and their problems, I think that the arrest trigger was pulled rather quickly.  Let's face it no other reported rape on campus has ever been handled this quickly.

 

ATL Dane said it best, let's just step back and take a breath.  I just have a weird feeling about this one, there is going to be more than meets the eye.

 

SSS

16860[/snapback]

 

 

Actually the DA and Guilderland Police have not investigated anything yet. That is the issue I have with this situation. In fact the DA's office was not even informed about the arrest until at least 12 hours after the arrest and then they were informed by a reporter who was seeking comment. See the TU article. University Police Dept. is the investigating and arresting agency. My issue is that the standard practice, according to the TU, is to make an arrest and then contact the DA and investigate. It looks good from the response time standpoint, but doesn't that sound like it would be pretty easy to jump the gun on something.

 

I'm not saying that this happened here, because we don't know. But I just wanted to point out the possibility.

 

By the way...I completely agree with ATL_Dane.

[Patch]

sunyac - don't get involved in a conversation if you have no background as to how the Administration has worked previous to this.

 

What about the victim Quackman? Why are we applauding the AD? This is a much more serious charge to what occured at Niagara. (Baseball vs. Basketball guys)

There wasn't a helpless female involved in that case. Maybe we should applaud the victim. Hazing training etc. are we acting or reacting to cover our backs?

Day late and a dollar short ; if and I mean if the charges do stand true against those student athletes

 

First off lets wait and watch and see how this plays out.

 

This is a traumatic experience for the victim.

 

These are extemely serious charges against the 2 students.

 

This is a horrific life altering event for all involved no matter what legal decisions are reached.

 

Colleges and Coaches (like parents) can only instruct, guide and direct their students and athletes as to what they "SHOULD DO".

 

Individuals at some time must make decisions for themselves.

 

Students control their own daily lives and actions.

 

Kids with fine parents sometimes make terrible decisions when on their own and Students sometime well instructed and given solid guidance make terrible decisions when on their own.

 

In this case we are talking about 2 or 3 individuals who made terrible decisions.

[danefan]

sunyac - don't get involved in a conversation if you have no background as to how the Administration has worked previous to this.

 

What about the victim Quackman? Why are we applauding the AD? This is a much more serious charge to what occured at Niagara. (Baseball vs. Basketball guys)

There wasn't a helpless female involved in that case. Maybe we should applaud the victim. Hazing training etc. are we acting or reacting to cover our backs?

Day late and a dollar short ; if and I mean if the charges do stand true against those student athletes

 

First off lets wait and watch and see how this plays out.

 

This is a traumatic experience for the victim.

 

These are extemely serious charges against the 2 students.

 

This is a horrific life altering event for all involved no matter what legal decisions are reached.

 

Colleges and Coaches (like parents) can only instruct, guide and direct their students and athletes as to what they "SHOULD DO".

 

Individuals at some time must make decisions for themselves.

 

Students control their own daily lives and actions.

 

Kids with fine parents sometimes make terrible decisions when on their own and Students sometime well instructed and given solid guidance make terrible decisions when on their own.

 

In this case we are talking about 2 or 3 individuals who made terrible decisions.

16862[/snapback]

 

Great post.

[ASP Guy]

Obviously, they should be presumed innocent until proven guilty, as with all cases.

 

But I don't think we should act like the fact that it's 2 football players is irrelavent. With appologies to some posters, I don't think you can say "well we wouldn't have cared if it was the chess team" and move on.

 

The fact is: the chess team does not make the backpages of newspapers, chess players do not recieve free rides to universities or play on television or perform in front of packed stadiums, etc...

 

The point is, the increased attention (and with it, the constant mention of the fact that they were members of the football team) comes with the celebrity of being a high profile part of the student body.

 

Again, for all we know these kids could be innocent (or complete dirt bags who raped a drunk girl - take your pick), but it's a bad day for those of us who support football at UAlbany.

[Dane96]

Obviously, they should be presumed innocent until proven guilty, as with all cases.

 

But I don't think we should act like the fact that it's 2 football players is irrelavent. With appologies to some posters, I don't think you can say "well we wouldn't have cared if it was the chess team" and move on.

 

The fact is: the chess team does not make the backpages of newspapers, chess players do not recieve free rides to universities or play on television or perform in front of packed stadiums, etc...

 

The point is, the increased attention (and with it, the constant mention of the fact that they were members of the football team) comes with the celebrity of being a high profile part of the student body.

 

Again, for all we know these kids could be innocent (or complete dirt bags who raped a drunk girl - take your pick), but it's a bad day for those of us who support football at UAlbany.

16864[/snapback]

 

Typical post from an unobservant poster. So, what you are intimating is that NO NON-ATHLETES who received free rides for academics, merit, financial aid, whatever, don't get accused of rape?!

 

Yeah, didnt think so. Case closed.

 

And the fact is...these kids havent played or travelled with the team. The fact that they are on the football team...IS IRRELEVANT...other than for newspaper people like yourself trying to make a story.

 

How about reporting about the OTHER sexual assault cases on campus.

Edited October 17, 2006 by Dane96

[danefan]

How about reporting about the OTHER sexual assault cases on campus.

16865[/snapback]

 

Why would they want to do that?

It won't sell papers...or in this case, people won't pick up free ASPs.

[ASP Guy]

Dane 96, I think you missed the point of my post:

the fact that the added exposure comes with the celebrity of being on the football team.

Let's face it, pigskin is a pretty big deal.

So when a football player (allegedly) does something like this, we want to know about it.

 

You can't compare it to regular students getting scholarships. I don't remember the last time the TU wrote about a presidential scholar gettting a 4.0. You know why? Because we just don't care.

 

We can pretend like the kids being football players is irrelavent. But that would just be wrong.

 

The fact is: these players wear UAlbany jerseys.

Other students don't represent us on nearly the same scale as they do.

[danefan]

Dane 96, I think you missed the point of my post:

the fact that the added exposure comes with the celebrity of being on the football team.

Let's face it, pigskin is a pretty big deal.

So when a football player (allegedly) does something like this, we want to know about it.

 

You can't compare it to regular students getting scholarships. I don't remember the last time the TU wrote about a presidential scholar gettting a 4.0.  You know why? Because we just don't care.

 

We can pretend like the kids being football players is irrelavent. But that would just be wrong.

 

The fact is: these players wear UAlbany jerseys.

Other students don't represent us on nearly the same scale as they do.

16867[/snapback]

 

I love the fact that when something negative happens everyone wants to say the Albany Football is bigtime, but yet when we win those same people say we are a team that no one cares about and therefore no media coverage is warranted.

 

I really mean this towards the TU, not you ASP GUY, becasue I don't really know you or what your role on the ASP is, if any.

[ASP Guy]

I only say what I say because when I was in college, I think i missed something like 2 home games for the football team and consider bob ford one of the classiest guys I've ever talked to over a period of time.

 

So it's a little disapointing when something like this happens. Not that it wouldn't be bad if a member of Hillel or something allegedly committed a rape. But this just bothers me a little more because of how closely I've followed this team and what it represents about an otherwise low profile school.

[Dane96]

Dane 96, I think you missed the point of my post:

the fact that the added exposure comes with the celebrity of being on the football team.

Let's face it, pigskin is a pretty big deal.

So when a football player (allegedly) does something like this, we want to know about it.

 

You can't compare it to regular students getting scholarships. I don't remember the last time the TU wrote about a presidential scholar gettting a 4.0.  You know why? Because we just don't care.

 

We can pretend like the kids being football players is irrelavent. But that would just be wrong.

 

The fact is: these players wear UAlbany jerseys.

Other students don't represent us on nearly the same scale as they do.

16867[/snapback]

 

 

No, my reading comprehension skills are just fine. I undestood every word of your post.

 

What you are missing, however, is that there is no difference between a kid who is on scholarship or free-aid who may or may not have committed a crime and those kids who are on athletic scholarships.

 

The ONLY DIFFERENCE...comes to those reporting the issue.

 

In the end...a crime is a crime...no matter who commits it. Oversensalization, e.g. DUKE, is perpetuated by those who need to tell a story.

 

Interestingly enough, I found the TU stories to be ok (and I usually bash them). In fact, I found enough in there to steer me from making ANY JUDGMENT! I have serious questions for both the victim and the players (for starters, what on earth were these two boys thinking having sex with a drunk girl...both of them at the same time....and for the girl, how on earth can she remember such vivid details of the event if she kept passing out and waking up. She says she passed out on the couch and then woke up...why didnt she attempt to leave (maybe she did but the article does not say that). Again, that is what the court system is for!!!

 

Right now...the players only poor judgment is that both men had sex with one girl who was drinking.

 

Do we know if it is rape or not? Not yet...that is for the trier of fact.

 

Unfortunately, the media and message boards feel like they are the trier of fact, which is certainly not the case.

 

Again, if the media wants to talk about all sexual assault cases on college campuses...fine...so be it. But you cannot talk about football players who have been accused (and mind you, they are in jail JUST BASED ON THE WORD OF AV...rape kits do not give any kind of DNA evidence in 12 hours...that is not the speed at which these things work)...without talking about the other assaults.

 

A RAPE IS A RAPE...no matter who has perpetuated the attack.

 

Just because you play college football...doesnt make you different than the other kids on campus who are receiving rides....period.

 

That being said, Doc Sauers once cautioned to do everything possible to keep yourself out of the media eye if you are an athlete....dont give them anything to write about.

 

This, I can agree with you and Doc on. However, the boys, as of now, are guilty of poor judgment. If you, or anyone in the media or on boards, sensationalized every act of poor judgment by college kids (athetes and non-athletes) we would be reading for years......

 

 

ASP GUY--- I pose this question:

 

Why on earth would you want to know about a football player committing a crime, opposed to another person in the Albany community committing the crime? How do the acts differ, unless your alterior motive is: WE WANT FOOTBALLERS TO PAY...and WE DONT CARE ABOUT THE REST. (I am not suggesting this is your view...I am just trying to make a point here).

 

Dont you think ALL SUSPECTED RAPES ARE IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMUNITY TO KNOW ABOUT...if it is the community you wish to protect?

Edited October 17, 2006 by Dane96