Albany Law

[BestDaneSinceHamlet]

Agreed. Im a non-practicing graduate of Cardozo Law. I've only practiced about 3 months of my life, but that degree taught me a way to think that I use every day...frequently much to my wife's chagrin.

[Underpar]

The importance of the bar passage rate to law schools is captured in this morning's New York Law Journal. Those of you who think bar passage rate is not important should read the article and think again. Buffalo Law's passage rate dropped by 11 points. 25% of its first time test takers failed. These people will not only have to sit for the exam again, when the rate of passage is even lower, they will not be able to practice law for all intents and purposes for another year. Try telling the deans of New York's 15 or so law schools that bar passage is not an important part of what they are selling.

[Underpar]

I looked at the results by school and 78% of Albany Law's grads passed the exam. Not a good showing but emblematic of what has occurred over recent years.

[Underpar]

And, there are 11 law schools in New York.

[Underpar]

Sorry, I'm having trouble pointing my finger this morning. Damned IPad. There are 14 law schools in New York.

[Underpar]

Actually I was right the first time there are 15. Some ties in the results. Anyway too many law schools.

[Underpar]

I'm heading out and hope my index finger can find the billable hour button.

[Dane96]

The importance of the bar passage rate to law schools is captured in this morning's New York Law Journal. Those of you who think bar passage rate is not important should read the article and think again. Buffalo Law's passage rate dropped by 11 points. 25% of its first time test takers failed. These people will not only have to sit for the exam again, when the rate of passage is even lower, they will not be able to practice law for all intents and purposes for another year. Try telling the deans of New York's 15 or so law schools that bar passage is not an important part of what they are selling.

 

No one ever said bar passage rate is not important. Do you just make this stuff up to suit your agenda? I said that passing the bar does not equate to being able to actually practice law at a competent level.

 

And I stand by that comment, wholeheartedly.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Dane96

[Michigan_Dane]

I hope Albany Law stakeholders look at this possible affiliation holistically. That means it's not just about affiliating with UAlbany it's also about the alternatives.

 

Is Albany Law better or worse off with a Stony Brook Law or Binghamton Law? That is also part of this decision but that's the alternative.

 

Is the Capital Region better or worse off with a large powerful university flagship or seeding that to Long Island or elsewhere?

 

There are dozens of short and long term outcomes tied to this single decision.

Edited November 13, 2014 by SoCal_Dane

[uofalbany]

You got it SCD

[uofalbany]

BDSH..... so, you spent the time, money, and energy on a degree in order to learn how to think?

Did you continue in some relate field, or was it a big cash burn on your part?

[Underpar]

I do have an agenda and I am sure you do also. I have a vested interest in Albany Law School. It has steadily slipped from being a very strong "regional" law school to a mediocre law school with aspirations of becoming a "national" law school.

 

When I attended AL the professors were mostly AL alums. They had returned to the school after fabulous careers in private practice. Two examples who come quickly to mind are Frank Anderson and Frank Wallace. Anderson advised us on the first day of Criminal Law that he expected to fail 25% of the class and that he had given only one A in his years of teaching. We were given voluminous reading assignments. Then the fun began. Anderson and Wallace would randomly pick a student make them stand and grill them about the course material with many different facts added to the questioning. No one wanted to be embarrassed in front of their classmates and the tension was very real. This was the tried and true method of teaching people to become lawyers and it worked.

 

At some point the leadership developed aspirations of becoming a national law school. This meant recruiting professors who were published. Many of the new professors were recent graduates from one of the Ivys. AL became, over time, a place where the professors were more interested in being recognized experts as opposed to unrecognized but real experts. Many of the younger faculty members who were undoubtedly brilliant never actually practiced law.

 

A degree from AL was a virtual guarantee that you would go on to be a very good lawyer and in more than a few cases go on to be a brilliant lawyer. In the meantime AL lost its identity. I stand with a large group of alums who want to see the school return to its roots and the model which made it so successful. We want the school to produce graduates who will become very good lawyers.

 

Our concern about the nature of the relationship with UA is that it will drag AL closer to the publish or perish model. For us it is about the quality of the graduate and not the "quality" of the faculty.

 

With all of this being said I and many others are in favor of a close relationship with UA. We are insisting that AL remain true to the model which made most of us very successful.

[Dane96]

Let's gloss over the fact that you made up a statement--tying it to members, not by name, of this board--to support your agenda. I simply think at times you are blinded by the past and, as a result, you aren't critically reading actual comments that are made on this board.

 

Great job, counselor.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Dane96

[BestDaneSinceHamlet]

Uofalbany,

 

I always went with the intention of becoming a lawyer. It wasn't a "what the hell do I do now after graduation move." I just wasn't a great law student, which is why I always recommend people take a few years off before going to law school. The maturity helps. School work had always come easy to me, but in law school no matter your powers of retention, you HAVE to do the work and have the patience to budget your time.

 

I do use my degree in large facets of what I do for a living, as I run music for a big international TV production company and legal issues and contracts come up on a daily basis. Plus, the "helping think like a lawyer" aspect helps me deconstruct and rebuild for problem solving. Very helpful. (The music aspect may explain the free time I have with my hands and posting on this board) when i'm spending a lot of time using my ears).

 

 

 

BDSH..... so, you spent the time, money, and energy on a degree in order to learn how to think?

Did you continue in some relate field, or was it a big cash burn on your part?

[uofalbany]

Sounds like you're doing ok... I've certainly changed courses a few times in my life.

If I threw away a business career and wanted to attend a law school at this point in my life, I certainly wouldn't attend a private law school.

Huge mistake business wise. If you're not getting a free ride in a private school for a undergraduate, graduate, or post degree.... public is the only way to go.

And I certainly can't fathom burying oneself in 50k+ in debt at a private school for 99% of the degrees that colleges offer.