Limiting Factors

[Clickclack]

I’m always wondering about the finances at UAlabany and the limiting factors that would prevent this program from growing even larger. What would be some limiting factors that would prevent UA to grow into a “true” powerhouse? How big of an issue is money/financing? Where does the athletic program get its money? How is the budget distributed etc. Is the biggest limiting factor the AD???? Lets discuss what we think will be the factors that will limit the growth of this program or let it blossom.

Edited March 14, 2006 by bosiydid

[reeder]

http://www.albany.edu/sports/dashboard.pdf

 

This might be a good starting point for info on funding

[daneguy04]

Here are a few quick limiting factors I see (some short term/some long term):

 

1 - No real arena - not many recruits are going to want to play half the season in the RACC even if it is really good atmosphere when it is sold out.

 

2 - No real fan base - more of a short term problem that is in the process of fixing itself, but right now we have sold out the RACC a whopping 2 times and big time recruits like the spot light and would want more then the few 100 that come to most home games. It might take another year or two until we can prove otherwise.

 

3 - The administration - generally I have been a large fan of Dr. McElroy and President Hall, but I think that this year and the contract situation (which will hopefully be resolved in the next 1-2 weeks) could really turn off some recruits. It is well known that recruits come to a school because of the coach, and until the Administration shows true long-term support of Coach Brown it may be hard to convince recruits that he will be there all 4-5 years of they NCAA career.

 

4 - Conference competion - again, a problem that will fix itself over time but you can not become a power house playing in the AE, this year it posed a good level of competition, but when our best competition is an overperforming New Hampsire it is hard to build a solid reputation. You get good by beating good teams and we have yet to do that. But as I said this will fix itself with time as the program grows.

 

I know some of these are problems that will be fixed as the program takes its baby steps before towards become a true national program (I hope). Guess you have to make a lay-up before you can slam dunk.

 

Either way the program has made huge strides since I joined the UA family in 2000 and if we keep up this pace the future is very very bright.

[Clickclack]

http://www.albany.edu/sports/dashboard.pdf

 

This might be a good starting point for info on funding

13036[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the link to the graphs. It looks like the budget for athletics has been growing at a healthy clip. Basketball income should substantially increase this year. How much will the school pocket for playing in the NCAA's?

[Dane96]

I’m always wondering about the finances at UAlabany and the limiting factors that would prevent this program from growing even larger.  What would be some limiting factors that would prevent UA to grow into a “true” powerhouse?  How big of an issue is money/financing?  Where does the athletic program get its money?  How is the budget distributed etc.  Is the biggest limiting factor the AD???? Lets discuss what we think will be the factors that will limit the growth of this program or let it blossom.

13035[/snapback]

 

 

I think this program finally showed the community it's potential. The reality is, the CD is big enough for Siena and UA. That being said, there will be more UA fans over time than Siena fans because of sheer affiliation to core values. What I mean, is UA is the "people's" school. Siena, for all it's great things, is a small private school. UA is the state school. In due time, based on the numbers game, more people from the CD will have some sort of familial/friend relation to the University.

 

With the City lacking a true MAJOR sports franchise, the potential is there for UA to be the Delaware or, if we do it right, Florida, of the NYS schools. I am not talking on an athletic performance basis, rather we are talking about culture.

 

Money, though an obstacle, will not build culture. As one prominent adept official and I have spoken about, culture must be bred over time. It is events like the past month and a half that will do such a thing. It is walking on campus and seeing the new fields and calling your family and saying "HOLY $iena, this looks like a DI campus," that builds culture. It is the softball team kicking ass. It is the Volleyball team making a national statement. It is keeping Coach's Vives, Ford, Simpson, Cannata, Sauers, etc (I mention them because they are lifers so far) around so we can build faith with the community.

 

It is naming a court after Sauers, a stadium field after Ford. Why? Because it bridges a gap between older alumni, who will finally learn we are DI and can still relate to "their people," with the new guard...the fans of the Marrs, Sheffields, Brown's, and Patterson's of the school.

 

I argue it is not money (though an important facet) that will drive our school, rather it is culture. It is a culture bred by dedicated staff, coaches, athletes, alumni. When people go home and call their parents and say "IT WAS ELECTRIC...the coolest thing ever.....did you watch it on TV," that builds culture.

 

The Captial Region is a hard-working middle class area. The money they part with, based on my previous national collegiate marketing experiences, will be to what they can relate too. While UA has been successful, I will never ever forget what Doc Sauers mentione to me once: "BASKETBALL WILL DRIVE THIS SCHOOL TO NATIONAL PROMINENCE." While basketball has been slow to come around and our coach's have had some learning pains, WILL BROWN, his staff, and those players just single handidly put us on the map both in the Capital District and nationally.

 

Just as they have grown, so too will the Dane family, and so too will the power of your degree grow exponentially.

 

To close, as the power of your degree and as the power of town gown relations grow so does the ability to fund our programs. We have witnessed the pinnacle of the beginning (it started about two years ago with other sports); it will rise rapidly over the next 10 years.

 

It would not suprise me in the least to one day see UA in a bigger conference, nor would it suprise me to see our name associated with the Top 25 research schools.

 

That being said...our budget has grown (I believe at least 2mm a year over the past four years...check the Athletic Dashboard on the UA sports site...left hand side) but more funding is needed. There are the small time donors like myself (first time this year after years of contemplation) and other larger donors like Mr. Fallon and some others I know whom have given and continue to give money to really support our team.

 

As both people who work directly with athletic donations mentioned to me, "EVERY DOLLAR COUNTS," no matter the size.

 

Moral- DONATE and you will feel a sense of pride and joy. Even if it is 25 bucks...donate.

 

McElroy and Hall are on the same page. Both led their respective previous schools to very good things.

 

The more money...the more we grow (e.g. websites, facilties, endowed scholarships).

[Clickclack]

Here are a few quick limiting factors I see (some short term/some long term):

 

1 - No real arena - not many recruits are going to want to play half the season in the RACC even if it is  really good atmosphere when it is sold out.

 

2 - No real fan base - more of a short term problem that is in the process of fixing itself, but right now we have sold out the RACC a whopping 2 times and big time recruits like the spot light and would want more then the few 100 that come to most home games.  It might take another year or two until we can prove otherwise.

 

3 - The administration - generally I have been a large fan of Dr. McElroy and President Hall, but I think that this year and the contract situation (which will hopefully be resolved in the next 1-2 weeks) could really turn off some recruits.  It is well known that recruits come to a school because of the coach, and until the Administration shows true long-term support of Coach Brown it may be hard to convince recruits that he will be there all 4-5 years of they NCAA career.

 

4 - Conference competion - again, a problem that will fix itself over time but you can not become a power house playing in the AE, this year it posed a good level of competition, but when our best competition is an overperforming New Hampsire it is hard to build a solid reputation.  You get good by beating good teams and we have yet to do that.  But as I said this will fix itself with time as the program grows.

 

I know some of these are problems that will be fixed as the program takes its baby steps before towards become a true national program (I hope).  Guess you have to make a lay-up before you can slam dunk. 

 

Either way the program has made huge strides since I joined the UA family in 2000 and if we keep up this pace the future is very very bright.

13037[/snapback]

 

 

1) I agree with your assessment that we don’t really have a real arena. The RACC is nice, but its no Pepsi or even Event Center in Bing. I think this point hinges squarely on the fan support. If we start to consistently sell out the RACC then perhaps the administration will consider throwing their support behind a new building.

 

2) As the program continues to be solid from year to year, I agree this will take care of itself.

 

3) I don’t know much about the Administration running UA, so I can’t really speak on this point. But I am perplexed at the long time it is taking to lock up Brown. What is the wait??

 

4) I really think that the SUNY schools are sleeping giants in the AE. Bing has a very bright future as does UA. I also think that SB will be the most improved team next year. Not to mention the non-SUNY schools like UVM and BU have been solid for a very long time, and will be back in the coming years. The AE as a whole should improve over the next few years, and be a stronger overall conference.

[GODANESGO]

Great post 96. Very logical and straight-forward. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's funny because I can't wait to graduate and go out and get a job to make some money. Why? Not so I can buy the things I want, etc. (although that's a part of it of course..lol), but so that I will actually have money to contribute and try to help make a difference..more than just deciding to pay the $3-4 to park close instead of free with walking.

 

I'm not sure the feelings of this board in regards to former Pres. Hitchcock, but she was President the first year that I came to UAlbany. I came to the school sometime in Feb. of my senior year in HS for an accepted students lunch, or something like that, and she was the speaker. The one thing I remember her saying was something to the effect of "it might not seem like it right now, but I promise you that whether it's in the next 5, 10, or 15 years, when you tell people that you graduated from the University at Albany, it's going to have the same meaning to people as all the other big name colleges across this country." And I can say, with me getting my Bachelor's this May, I really do feel like that's true already.

[Dane96]

Great post 96. Very logical and straight-forward. I couldn't have said it better myself. It's funny because I can't wait to graduate and go out and get a job to make some money. Why? Not so I can buy the things I want, etc. (although that's a part of it of course..lol), but so that I will actually have money to contribute and try to help make a difference..more than just deciding to pay the $3-4 to park close instead of free with walking.

 

I'm not sure the feelings of this board in regards to former Pres. Hitchcock, but she was President the first year that I came to UAlbany. I came to the school sometime in Feb. of my senior year in HS for an accepted students lunch, or something like that, and she was the speaker. The one thing I remember her saying was something to the effect of "it might not seem like it right now, but I promise you that whether it's in the next 5, 10, or 15 years, when you tell people that you graduated from the University at Albany, it's going to have the same meaning to people as all the other big name colleges across this country." And I can say, with me getting my Bachelor's this May, I really do feel like that's true already.

13043[/snapback]

 

 

From an athletic standpoint, some, ahem SIENA fans said:

 

-talk to me when you beat us

-talk to me when you win a postseason game

-talk to me when you win the conference

-talk to me when you make the NCAA's.

 

CHECk

CHECK

CHECK

CHECK

 

Now, whomever said it cant or wont be done in the future...I POINT TO ALL THOSE CHECKS!

[KingDane]

"While basketball has been slow to come around and our coach's have had some learning pains, WILL BROWN, his staff, and those players just single handidly put us on the map both in the Capital District and nationally."

 

 

Slow to come around? Since we've gone to D 1 the 'coming around' has been spectacular. If the rate of success in the next 5 years is as dramatic as in the past 5 years - we will have arrived! Albany is New York State's central university and is no different than Texas, Minnesota, etc. They all have branches, some at the D1 level, but the branches are never as successful. (i.e. UNC Wilmington).

 

The 'slow' part was all those D3 decades where Doc did the best he could with what he got.

 

What I want to hear on CBS Friday night is "let's take you back to Philadelphia where something very interesting is going on late in the game..."

 

Go Danes

[jalidanefan]

"While basketball has been slow to come around and our coach's have had some learning pains, WILL BROWN, his staff, and those players just single handidly put us on the map both in the Capital District and nationally."

 

 

Slow to come around? Since we've gone to D 1 the 'coming around' has been spectacular. If the rate of success in the next 5 years is as dramatic as in the past 5 years - we will have arrived! Albany is New York State's central university and is no different than Texas, Minnesota, etc. They all have branches, some at the D1 level, but the branches are never as successful. (i.e. UNC Wilmington).

 

The 'slow' part was all those D3 decades where Doc did the best he could with what he got.

 

What I want to hear on CBS Friday night is "let's take you back to Philadelphia where something very interesting is going on late in the game..."

 

Go Danes

13048[/snapback]

 

In almost every category Buffalo is the main campus in NY. Size, funding, # of degree programs including BA, BS, MA, MS, and Dr. offered, time DI, # of $ sports DI. It seems to be Albany's gift to far western NY each year and the rest of the campuses get shafted due to an annual rise in prison, k-12, and helath care spending. Buffalo is also in a more difficult conference than AEast and have taken their lumps year after year. I would love to see a game against them to get a more accurate measure. However, unlike most states that have one or two (Michigan & Michigan State) main campuses (defined as universities that offer doctoral programs) there are four "main" campuses in our system plus Cornell. None of the branches (Cortland, Geneseo, ...) are DI in a major sport.

In addition, NY spends more funding private colleges than all other states combined! State funding for public facilities on our campuses thus is severely restricted. That is why fund raising has become so aggressive over the past decade. We are a public school battling in a private and very competitive market. That brings some advantages (highly subsidized tuition) and disadvantages (less flexible spending, marketing, slow pace of the STATE). So limits to the program have many systemic roots that need to be dealt with / around.

Take the RACC for example. It had to be a multipurpose facility in order to get any funding from the state and a sep. facility for T&F was not an option even though nobody was happy with the track being there. How many DI bball programs have to deal with the T&F team running around, shooting of guns, shouting, ... at the same time practice is going on?

Lastly, about the RACC being adequate. Go to any of the older urban schools and take a look at what they had and often still play in. Seton Hall's gym is a tiny box with raised stands and couldn't hold more than 1,000? They don't play big games there anymore but as of '95 they still practiced there and played minor games there. The RACC is fine for now and until the season ticket holders number close to Siena's numbers then we should stick with it so rough seasons can be weathered with out a loss at a big rented stadium aka Pepsi. Believe it or not Purple Fans, there will be some down years and that needs to be a part of the planning.

[UAalum72]

The other problem with being a public school in a private -dominated market is donations - there's never been a habit of giving to the state university developed, which is why Albany's endowment is only around $17 million List- one of the lowest of any Division I university. It's only now that students from after the College for Teachers era are reaching the age when they may be able to make more substantial gifts.

 

I've heard both Binghamton and Stony Brook also claim to be the 'flagship' school of the SUNY system, so there's no reason we can't too.

Edited March 14, 2006 by UAalum72

[Big D]

There are four "flagship" schools, which has always been part of the image problem, nationally. When Rockefeller was expanding the SUNY system in the 60s, he wanted the four University Centers (as well as the state colleges) in different parts of the state for political reasons, so that everyone got a piece of the pie, and would therefore support the massive expense of building campuses. The upside was all regions benefit economically. The downside has been no focal point for big time college sports.

 

Dane 96 hit it right on the head re: the need to change the "culture" of the school. It won't happen overnight, but this NCAA bid is a good start. UConn is a perfect example of how a basketball program can change a school's perception of itself. As the UA basketball program continues to grow and succeed, the students will have more school spirit, and become emotionally invested in their school as students and alumni. This causes applications to increase, selectivity and academic reputation to increase, and alumni donations to increase.

 

As for the RACC, lets not get ahead of ourselves. I'll take 4,000 at the RACC over 6,000 at the Pepsi Arena every time.

[gmichels]

I agree with the last post that a sold out RACC beats a half filled pepsi. If we can keep the average racc attendance going up 300/400 a year the program will continue to grow. The local community support is the long term key. The short term key is the large student body right there and getting them to the game on a regular basis as well as signing Coach Brown to a long term deal.

 

I think we have a good recruiting class coming in that should keep us near the top of the AE for a few years. No need to bail on the AE. They are good collection of academic schools. I would be in more of a hurry to get out of the Northeast conference in football for overall program growth.

 

We need to continue the momentum!

 

Go Danes!