Gov Patterson plans for SUNY overhaul

[danefan]

Does anyone have the necessary insight into the legislative process to guesstimate on when this bill could be passed and signed?

 

 

I am by no means an expert but I can shed some light on it.

 

The SUNY Empowerment & Innovation Act is what is referred to as an Article VII bill. An Article VII bill is a bill that is submitted by the Governor along with his budget appropriation bills and is necessary to implement the governor's budget proposal.

 

I believe that Article VII bills go through the same legislative process as the Appropriation bills. The Appropriation bills are generally finalized in late March, early April.

 

http://www.budget.state.ny.us/citizen/process/process.html

[UAalum72]

,

Does anyone have the necessary insight into the legislative process to guesstimate on when this bill could be passed and signed?

As good a guarantee as you can get is that the NYS budget won't be passed before 11 pm March 31, if not later.

 

Whether any parts may be passed earlier, I couldn't say, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Classof72/74]

This sounds promising, but don't assume its a done deal. Check the final comments in this article from the Daily News

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/01/16/2010-01-16_gov_david_paterson_wants_suny_and_cuny_to_set_their_tuition_not_state.html

 

 

The true magnitude of the changes could be all, some, or none :-/

 

 

Newspaper headline: SUNY Drowning in Red Tape.

 

"Over-regulation of the State University dooms it to be second-class university system.............the university is the most over-regulated in the nation and should be restructured in the coming year as a public benefit corporation." and "The record does not show a committtment by New York state to building a leading public university system of high quality as a primary duty of government."

 

The date? January 16 1985. The headline is from the "state special" edition of the Knickerbocker News :-0

[danefan]

This sounds promising, but don't assume its a done deal. Check the final comments in this article from the Daily News

 

http://www.nydailyne..._not_state.html

 

 

The true magnitude of the changes could be all, some, or none :-/

 

 

Newspaper headline: SUNY Drowning in Red Tape.

 

"Over-regulation of the State University dooms it to be second-class university system.............the university is the most over-regulated in the nation and should be restructured in the coming year as a public benefit corporation." and "The record does not show a committtment by New York state to building a leading public university system of high quality as a primary duty of government."

 

The date? January 16 1985. The headline is from the "state special" edition of the Knickerbocker News :-0

 

While I agree this isn't a new theory, I think the way it was proposed and the fact that UB2020 had some success that its has the best shot to pass now. I'm not sure its been proposed as an Article VII budget bill before. Patterson has directly tied it to the budget cuts for SUNY which may give the legislatures an "out" when they approve budget cuts. "Sure we cut the SUNY bugets, but we didn't do it because we aren't investing in the education of our residents, we did so because the schools will be able to make even more money when they are deregulated"

 

I'm probably way over optimistic though.

[danefan]

Man there is a ton of negativity about this bill. I really don't understand the logic behind the opposition. Most of it seems to be based on the fact that tuition will increase. Do people really believe that tuition isn't going to increase anyway?

 

 

I posted the articles on the UA Linked-in Alumni pages and alumns have actually commented against the bill. Am I missing something?

[Michigan_Dane]

Man there is a ton of negativity about this bill. I really don't understand the logic behind the opposition. Most of it seems to be based on the fact that tuition will increase. Do people really believe that tuition isn't going to increase anyway?

 

 

I posted the articles on the UA Linked-in Alumni pages and alumns have actually commented against the bill. Am I missing something?

 

 

I have to agree with you DaneFan. What's with the negativity?

 

I live in Southern California and people here know and understand that it costs more to go to a UC campus (research). My fiance is a post-doctorate and she wouldn't have it any other way. Do you want to attend a university that doesn't have the money to do research? Why go to the university if it's not competitive.

 

We have a university system. Open access doesn't mean 64 mediocre universities. Each level should serve a purpose. Wisconsin, Michigan, California etc all have different types of campuses and I'd bet they all charge more than SUNY... and the results speak for themselves. This is a chance for SUNY to finally be able to finance itself. A chance to be competitive. I've lived in a dozen states and have colleagues in most states and no one gets New York's distorted logic.

 

Why do people want SUNY to be a low standard diploma mill? That doesn't benefit anyone. That's why a high school degree is worth 0.

[B9j2j6s]

People think with their hearts not heads. When they here tuition going up it causes a negative reaction. They don't realize that you need to spend more to get more. Unfortunately the state is often to short sided to do what has got to be done. Look at the upheaval our governor had when he said budgets needed to be cut. It wasn't popular but it needed to be done. Same here with this suny bill, people just don't see the big picture.

[danefan]

People think with their hearts not heads. When they here tuition going up it causes a negative reaction. They don't realize that you need to spend more to get more. Unfortunately the state is often to short sided to do what has got to be done. Look at the upheaval our governor had when he said budgets needed to be cut. It wasn't popular but it needed to be done. Same here with this suny bill, people just don't see the big picture.

 

 

I guess I just didn't expect to get that type of response from Alumni.

 

A positive is that a UA professor (the Chair of the Accounting and Tax Department) stepped in and backed me up.

 

Under the current model, UAlbany has no control over tuition. During the most recent tuition increase UAlbany was able to keep only 10 cents out of every dollar while 90 cents went to the state's general fund to help pay down the state deficit. In essence, currently tuition increases are used as a tax upon students to help cover other state spending and not to increase/improve university offerings. The new legislation will allow tuition increases to be retained by the schools. In the wake of harsh state budget cuts to SUNY, this is desperately needed.

 

 

 

Tuition would most likely increase at the four university centers and Geneseo. However, the cost of operating the four university centers is much greater and the educational services and degrees offered are far more numerous as well. There is a rational component to charging more for that. Not every SUNY school delivers equal quantity or quality in education. The current model of funding SUNY is not sustainable. State funds have diminished, costs have risen. The new bill allows for more entreprenuership in raising funds.

 

 

UB2020 has some serious opposition from the professor's union. I hope the professor whose comments I posted above are more indicative of the opinion of the professors this time around.

[danefan]

Chancellor Zimpher is testifying today in front of the joint budget committee. Should be interesting.

 

You can watch it live here:

http://www.nysenate....budget-proposal

 

Started a few minutes ago.

 

Chancellor Zimpher sporting purple!

[Classof72/74]

Here's the rest of the story on the SUNY budget

 

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=893664&category=STATE

 

[danefan]

So my quick recap of the part of the testimony and Q&A that I saw is as follows:

 

1. Zimpher kisses butt very well and will do absolute wonders for SUNY if she stays here for a long time. She knows the right buttons to push on politicians.

2. Zimpher was blindsided by some of Paterson's budget cuts to SUNY and CUNY.

3. Toby Ann Stovisky (Senate Higher Ed Chair) seems to agree with the SUNY Flex but doesn't really like the idea of differential tuition.

4. Deborah Glick (Assembly Higher Ed Chair) doesn't like SUNY Flex and doesn't want to give up any power to the SUNY Bd of Trustees. She also wants to cure all the SUNY problems by simply raising out-of-state tuition. She'll be the one that needs to be won over.

 

I stopped watching after Glick's Q&A.

 

One point she made that is valid is this:

Chancellor Zimpher used Nano as an example of what SUNY Flex could bring in the area of public/private partnerships. Aseemblywoman Glick responded by asking the obvious question: If the current SUNY system is so rigid than how were we able to create such a successful public/private partnership at UA with the Nanocollege?

 

I unfortunately didn't get to hear all of Chancellor Zimpher's response.

[Classof72/74]

So my quick recap of the part of the testimony and Q&A that I saw is as follows:

 

1. Zimpher kisses butt very well and will do absolute wonders for SUNY if she stays here for a long time. She knows the right buttons to push on politicians.

2. Zimpher was blindsided by some of Paterson's budget cuts to SUNY and CUNY.

3. Toby Ann Stovisky (Senate Higher Ed Chair) seems to agree with the SUNY Flex but doesn't really like the idea of differential tuition.

4. Deborah Glick (Assembly Higher Ed Chair) doesn't like SUNY Flex and doesn't want to give up any power to the SUNY Bd of Trustees. She also wants to cure all the SUNY problems by simply raising out-of-state tuition. She'll be the one that needs to be won over.

 

I stopped watching after Glick's Q&A.

 

One point she made that is valid is this:

Chancellor Zimpher used Nano as an example of what SUNY Flex could bring in the area of public/private partnerships. Aseemblywoman Glick responded by asking the obvious question: If the current SUNY system is so rigid than how were we able to create such a successful public/private partnership at UA with the Nanocollege?

 

I unfortunately didn't get to hear all of Chancellor Zimpher's response.

 

 

Zimpher said that Nano succeeded in spite of SUNY structure, would have happened much faster under SUNY Flex and that in public/private partnerships speedy response was essential.

 

Couple of other observations -- sorry I can't remember all the assemblypersons names, but I'll try to paraphrase.

 

On differential tuition "What SUNY has the lowest application/acceptance rate?" Given the need to attract students for tuition revenue (under SUNY Flex) would that insitution also have the lowest tuition, and would that mean that the (financially) poorest students would be steered toward the financially "poorest" SUNY? Zimpher's response was that financial aid (TAP) continues to play a crucial role and when times get better financially SUNY will partner with the legislature to improve the support structure.

 

Foley (?)(Long Island) was concerned with land use, wanted to avoid "commercialization" of SUNY campuses (?)

 

Assemblyman from Buffalo wanted to know how SUNY Flex would resolve "brain drain" -- SUNY Buffalo turns out lots of qualified grads, who then graduate and leave the area for job opportunities. Zimpher pointed to a program she was involved in during her Ohip tenure that funded co-op programs (and how SUNY Flex could facilitate this)

 

DeFrancisco(?) wanted to know more, and specifics, about how SUNY was capitalizing on distance learning and using "star" professors to teach courses across the system. Zimpher didn't have the answer he wanted, and he complained that he asks this every year and never gets an answer.

 

There was also some exchange about SUNY campsus absorbing $70 per student on the proposed tuition increase (something about TAPbeing based on a $5000 tuition ceiling and tuition is now $5070??), and now with the additional proposed reductions in TAP that would increase the problem by $150/student.

(Is the TAP reduction $75/semester, or $75/year).

 

I don't know if the hearing is archived somewhere for those who REALLY want the details. My impression is that SUNY Flex is not a done deal. If it passes there will likely be compromises. And if it passes its hard to see how it would fully implimented in FY 10-11, maybe more likely to be phased in over a couple years IMO.

 

One more thing about the devil in the details -- SUNY Board of Trustees now approves tuition increases. Given one tuition level across the system its a pretty light workload. Under SUNY Flex If every campus is going to have a different tuition level, and even within campsus programs will have different tuition levels, will each of these have to be approved by the Trustees?? That has the makings of a full time job all by itself.

[danefan]

So my quick recap of the part of the testimony and Q&A that I saw is as follows:

 

1. Zimpher kisses butt very well and will do absolute wonders for SUNY if she stays here for a long time. She knows the right buttons to push on politicians.

2. Zimpher was blindsided by some of Paterson's budget cuts to SUNY and CUNY.

3. Toby Ann Stovisky (Senate Higher Ed Chair) seems to agree with the SUNY Flex but doesn't really like the idea of differential tuition.

4. Deborah Glick (Assembly Higher Ed Chair) doesn't like SUNY Flex and doesn't want to give up any power to the SUNY Bd of Trustees. She also wants to cure all the SUNY problems by simply raising out-of-state tuition. She'll be the one that needs to be won over.

 

I stopped watching after Glick's Q&A.

 

One point she made that is valid is this:

Chancellor Zimpher used Nano as an example of what SUNY Flex could bring in the area of public/private partnerships. Aseemblywoman Glick responded by asking the obvious question: If the current SUNY system is so rigid than how were we able to create such a successful public/private partnership at UA with the Nanocollege?

 

I unfortunately didn't get to hear all of Chancellor Zimpher's response.

 

 

Zimpher said that Nano succeeded in spite of SUNY structure, would have happened much faster under SUNY Flex and that in public/private partnerships speedy response was essential.

 

Couple of other observations -- sorry I can't remember all the assemblypersons names, but I'll try to paraphrase.

 

On differential tuition "What SUNY has the lowest application/acceptance rate?" Given the need to attract students for tuition revenue (under SUNY Flex) would that insitution also have the lowest tuition, and would that mean that the (financially) poorest students would be steered toward the financially "poorest" SUNY? Zimpher's response was that financial aid (TAP) continues to play a crucial role and when times get better financially SUNY will partner with the legislature to improve the support structure.

 

Foley (?)(Long Island) was concerned with land use, wanted to avoid "commercialization" of SUNY campuses (?)

 

Assemblyman from Buffalo wanted to know how SUNY Flex would resolve "brain drain" -- SUNY Buffalo turns out lots of qualified grads, who then graduate and leave the area for job opportunities. Zimpher pointed to a program she was involved in during her Ohip tenure that funded co-op programs (and how SUNY Flex could facilitate this)

 

DeFrancisco(?) wanted to know more, and specifics, about how SUNY was capitalizing on distance learning and using "star" professors to teach courses across the system. Zimpher didn't have the answer he wanted, and he complained that he asks this every year and never gets an answer.

 

There was also some exchange about SUNY campsus absorbing $70 per student on the proposed tuition increase (something about TAPbeing based on a $5000 tuition ceiling and tuition is now $5070??), and now with the additional proposed reductions in TAP that would increase the problem by $150/student.

(Is the TAP reduction $75/semester, or $75/year).

 

I don't know if the hearing is archived somewhere for those who REALLY want the details. My impression is that SUNY Flex is not a done deal. If it passes there will likely be compromises. And if it passes its hard to see how it would fully implimented in FY 10-11, maybe more likely to be phased in over a couple years IMO.

 

One more thing about the devil in the details -- SUNY Board of Trustees now approves tuition increases. Given one tuition level across the system its a pretty light workload. Under SUNY Flex If every campus is going to have a different tuition level, and even within campsus programs will have different tuition levels, will each of these have to be approved by the Trustees?? That has the makings of a full time job all by itself.

 

 

Thanks for filling in the details.

 

I also don't think this is going to pass as it stands now. I think the easy compromise is to have it apply to only the Big 4 (or 6 if you include the hospitals). That way the Legislature can keep their thumb on the other 60 SUNY campuses and the major economic drivers in the SUNY system can move forward.

 

I was initially surprised that the Governor's proposal included all SUNY and CUNY schools.

[olddog71]

Thanks for the updates on the SUNY funding discussion in the NYS legislature.

 

For me, the easiest way to recap the current situation is by my statement. As state funds for higher learning continue to decrease proportionate to the real costs of educating each student currently enrolled in SUNY, the legislature and governor continue to have an increasingly disproportionate role in meddling in SUNY affairs. What percentage of total SUNY operating costs now come from government funding, as opposed to 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago?

 

The possibly MOST dysfunctional state legislature has far too much say in the whole matter, in my opinion.

[alum73]

UAlbany gets 20% of it's funds from the state, per President Philip.