MBB: vs. UVM (Big Purple Growl) 2/6

[UAalum72]

 

How was the ceremony honoring the 05-06 team?

I thought it was fun and a great idea by whoever put it together.

 

Jaimie Brown did most of the organizing of the reunion.

 

Someone mentioned that the officials started to get tough when Cremo and bel got into it; but there was no call on the previous series when Cremo was literally picked up and thrown to the ground. Early in the second half Singletary was racing up the court it probably would not have led to much (may be 3 on 2 break?) when the vt player simply grabbed him around the waist and simply stopped him in his tracks. A foul was called but I do not know why it was not considered intentional--no attempt to go for the ball at all. And a top worse of all time--Rowley going under the basket for a reverse lay up and the vt player simply gives him a shove from behind (Rowley stumbles badly, could have easily fallen forward on his head). Rowley awarded two shots. Absolutely should have been flagrant and intentional. And lastly, on at least two or there occasions, vt guard would jump stop into the lane, then elevate off one foot and shoot. I believe Wyland calls this a Euro-step, whatever the heck that is. To me the jump stop is already at least two steps {already traveling if you will}; but even if you only count the jump stop as one step, when you push off into the air , hence step two and traveling--no basket..

There was a discussion on the America East board about intentional fouls after the SBU/UVM game - an SBU guy wanted intentionals on the fouls at the end of game when UVM was hoping to cut the gap - and intentionals generally won't be called unless there's a clear attempt to injure. To the call vs. Evan, there were two UVM defenders down near the foul line, so they weren't going to flash the X and give us two shots and the ball, it was just a common foul.

 

The way I understand the jump stop, you've stopped your dribble and both feet hit the ground. Either foot then becomes your pivot foot and you can take another step to position yourself to jump in the air for your shot.

 

As to Ward's shot, Click posted a video to show how badly the refs missed that call - because I don't think this is a jump stop. We may call it a Euro step because that's how they call it in international ball, but not usually here unless you're a major NBA star.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bzyjpobHAc&feature=youtu.be

Edited February 8, 2016 by UAalum72

[Eli]

 

 

How was the ceremony honoring the 05-06 team?

I thought it was fun and a great idea by whoever put it together.

 

Jaimie Brown did most of the organizing of the reunion.

 

Someone mentioned that the officials started to get tough when Cremo and bel got into it; but there was no call on the previous series when Cremo was literally picked up and thrown to the ground. Early in the second half Singletary was racing up the court it probably would not have led to much (may be 3 on 2 break?) when the vt player simply grabbed him around the waist and simply stopped him in his tracks. A foul was called but I do not know why it was not considered intentional--no attempt to go for the ball at all. And a top worse of all time--Rowley going under the basket for a reverse lay up and the vt player simply gives him a shove from behind (Rowley stumbles badly, could have easily fallen forward on his head). Rowley awarded two shots. Absolutely should have been flagrant and intentional. And lastly, on at least two or there occasions, vt guard would jump stop into the lane, then elevate off one foot and shoot. I believe Wyland calls this a Euro-step, whatever the heck that is. To me the jump stop is already at least two steps {already traveling if you will}; but even if you only count the jump stop as one step, when you push off into the air , hence step two and traveling--no basket..

There was a discussion on the America East board about intentional fouls after the SBU/UVM game - an SBU guy wanted intentionals on the fouls at the end of game when UVM was hoping to cut the gap - and intentionals generally won't be called unless there's a clear attempt to injure. To the call vs. Evan, there were two UVM defenders down near the foul line, so they weren't going to flash the X and give us two shots and the ball, it was just a common foul.

 

The way I understand the jump stop, you've stopped your dribble and both feet hit the ground. Either foot then becomes your pivot foot and you can take another step to position yourself to jump in the air for your shot.

 

As to Ward's shot, Click posted a video to show how badly the refs missed that call - because I don't think this is a jump stop. We may call it a Euro step because that's how they call it in international ball, but not usually here unless you're a major NBA star.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bzyjpobHAc&feature=youtu.be

 

 

This is my point. People like Bye, Wyland and fans here who primarily follow college ball just aren't accustomed to seeing it done so it looks weird. I watch a LOT more NBA ball (I know 100x more about the NBA than I will ever know about the NCAA) and it's a totally legit move WHEN done correctly. I'm not saying Bye or Wyland dont' know anything about pro ball...but that could be the case. Just like some people here watch women's basketball and I couldn't be paid to watch it (no offense to anyone who's a die hard women's bball fan).

 

Watch what Iman Shumpert does.

 

Without seeing the situation that is being discussed, I can't say if it was a travel or not. Nothing comes to mind. However, generally speaking, it's actually a BEAUTIFUL move when done correctly.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Ilko

[dslyank]

I am not an expert, but from watching the video's you recommended, it appears to me the euro step is as you say a legit and classy move. The jump stop appears to be a totally different animal. What vt was performing looked nothing like the nba euro step, which is a done with a fluid motion with no delay. vt player would actual come to a full stop, look around (1-2 seconds i guess) before making a move to the basket. I guess if they could make this move without moving either now planted feet, it would be legal; but I do not see how they can be allowed to pivot on either foot w/o being called for traveling.

 

In any case the replay on the Ward play clearly showed, not only did he do all of the above, but he came down after his pivot and his foot hit the ground before he released the shot--hence a travel in any interpretation. In my interpretation he actually traveled twice with no call either way.

Edited February 8, 2016 by dslyank

[danstep]

luckily Evan came to play in the second half, otherwise this would have been a very ugly loss to, IMO, a mediocre team. Our bigs were awful but made foul shots. Big Rich probably has the WORST hands in the league, he constantly has balls knocked loose or taken away and his footwork is way too slow to make a difference. Mike R. gets intimidated down low still which is bothersome and Greg, who hustles his azzz off and works hard all the time is just 2 inches short IMO from being someone who could potentially dominate....with that negative rant aside, at this point it is all about wins not style points....great atmosphere as usual when the house is packed!!! GO DANES

[Eli]

I am not an expert, but from watching the video's you recommended, it appears to me the euro step is as you say a legit and classy move. The jump stop appears to be a totally different animal. What vt was performing looked nothing like the nba euro step, which is a done with a fluid motion with no delay. vt player would actual come to a full stop, look around (1-2 seconds i guess) before making a move to the basket. I guess if they could make this move without moving either now planted feet, it would be legal; but I do not see how they can be allowed to pivot on either foot w/o being called for traveling.

 

In any case the replay on the Ward play clearly showed, not only did he do all of the above, but he came down after his pivot and his foot hit the ground before he released the shot--hence a travel in any interpretation. In my interpretation he actually traveled twice with no call either way.

 

I'm trying to visualize what you're saying and I'm still not seeing it. This is how I'm understanding it without a visual. If he came to a stop with two feet (didn't pick up his dribble while landing with one foot), he is able to move either foot or make either foot the plant foot. He still has 2 more steps.

 

1) Player running down the court dribbling the ball

2) Player, while ending/gathering his dribble, jumps off both feet landing on two feet

3) Because he landed on two feet...player is then able to pivot from either foot or stay planted on two (doesn't matter if it's 1, 2, or 5 seconds)

4) Player jumps again and releases shot as he's jumping

 

What is illegal about this? This is totally legal.

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, this is called the 'pro hop' , which is another move done quite a bit in the NBA by guys like Lebron James, Derrick Rose, etc.

 

Now, in trying to understand your explanation and researching it a bit on my own, I did come across a term called the "Hop Travel" which differs from the above in that the player, when ending his dribble (#2) only lands with one foot and then hops and lands on that one foot again (with the other foot yet to have touch the floor). That's a travel even in the NBA. Does that sound like what the Vermont kid did?

 

1) Player running down the court dribbling the ball

2) Player, while ending/gathering his dribble, lands with one foot

3) Player then immediately hops and lands with the same foot as #2 again

4) Player jumps again (or pivots with either foot) and releases shot as he's jumping

 

That is a travel. But only if #3 is the same foot as #2. The play is already illegal in step 3 before step 4 even happens.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Ilko

[Eli]

luckily Evan came to play in the second half, otherwise this would have been a very ugly loss to, IMO, a mediocre team. Our bigs were awful but made foul shots. Big Rich probably has the WORST hands in the league, he constantly has balls knocked loose or taken away and his footwork is way too slow to make a difference. Mike R. gets intimidated down low still which is bothersome and Greg, who hustles his azzz off and works hard all the time is just 2 inches short IMO from being someone who could potentially dominate....with that negative rant aside, at this point it is all about wins not style points....great atmosphere as usual when the house is packed!!! GO DANES

 

Yeah, give Rich's size to Stire and he'd be a monster for sure.

 

Rich got blocked not once but twice. He looked like Gifford out there.

[Patch]

 

 

Yeah, give Rich's size to Stire and he'd be a monster for sure. - danstep

 

And UA never would have gotten him!

[danstep]

fair point @Patch!!!!

[dslyank]

llko,

 

I accept your explanation that someone who comes to a jump stop is according to the rules allowed to pivot.

 

What actually happened, if you saw the video and Wyland and the replay confirmed:

Ward more or less had his back to the basket; he pivoted (as you say is allowed); leaped in the air off the pivot foot (still allowed) BUT his foot retouched the floor before he got the shot off. IF he had released the ball on the leap before his foot remade contact with the floor it would have been a legal shot, but because he remade contact with the floor it SHOULD have been called travel no shot according to Wyland & Bye.

[Clickclack]

llko,

 

I accept your explanation that someone who comes to a jump stop is according to the rules allowed to pivot.

 

What actually happened, if you saw the video and Wyland and the replay confirmed:

Ward more or less had his back to the basket; he pivoted (as you say is allowed); leaped in the air off the pivot foot (still allowed) BUT his foot retouched the floor before he got the shot off. IF he had released the ball on the leap before his foot remade contact with the floor it would have been a legal shot, but because he remade contact with the floor it SHOULD have been called travel no shot according to Wyland & Bye.

 

This is exactly correct...

[Eli]

 

llko,

 

I accept your explanation that someone who comes to a jump stop is according to the rules allowed to pivot.

 

What actually happened, if you saw the video and Wyland and the replay confirmed:

Ward more or less had his back to the basket; he pivoted (as you say is allowed); leaped in the air off the pivot foot (still allowed) BUT his foot retouched the floor before he got the shot off. IF he had released the ball on the leap before his foot remade contact with the floor it would have been a legal shot, but because he remade contact with the floor it SHOULD have been called travel no shot according to Wyland & Bye.

 

This is exactly correct...

 

Agreed. Based on that explanation, I am in full agreement. That is a travel. I guess the earlier posts just didn't do a good job of explaining it but that last post did.

 

 

 

The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.

The second step occurs after the first step when the other foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.

A player who comes to a stop on step one when both feet are on the floor or touch the floor simultaneously may pivot using either foot as his pivot. If he jumps with both feet he must release the ball before either foot touches the floor.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Ilko