Hockey

[purplenorange]

Here is a slightly edited message I sent to our President - what do others think about upgrading our Hockey program? Does SEFCU accommodate ice? If not, it's not that big a deal.

 

....

Hello George,

 

You may remember me – we met at the Boston fundraiser earlier this year at Eaton Vance.

 

I wanted to outline a quick idea for UAlbany (and I realize you probably get dozens of these) –

 

A lot of schools try, but few succeed, to create shared experiences and traditions for their students. Whether it’s a “house” at Harvard or Yale, football at Michigan, or “Mr. Jefferson” at Virginia, they generate far more goodwill and funds for their respective universities than they cost. Mr. Jefferson was free – the Wolverines cost $millions - but neither school would ever part with their particular touchstone. The value is inordinate, immeasurable, and irreproducible.

 

To this point, UAlbany needs a Hockey program. Don’t delete the email just yet – here’s “why”:

- Hockey is a “northeast” sport.

- No other SUNY University has a Division I Hockey program.

- Each team (men’s and women’s) needs only 22 players. It’s Title IX compliant out of the box.

- the SEFCU arena can be modified to cheaply accommodate Hockey.

- Albany’s northeast peer institutions have strong Hockey traditions:

Vermont, Boston University, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, +

northeast Ivy and “prestige” schools – Harvard, Dartmouth, etc…

- There’s a strong capital region Hockey community in place with Union and RPI.

- There are high-end leagues – ECAC, Hockey East, etc. which would welcome a school like Albany.

 

I’m not a hockey player – I’m barely a hockey fan – but I am a business executive and think I can spot an opportunity when I see one. Albany can get the jump on the other SUNY schools into this program. Div I football is great – but it’s a LONG SLOG to be a top-tier program. Look at UConn, 15 years and $MILLIONS spent on football, and they’re not at the table with Michigan or UCLA. They may never get there.

 

Hockey is cheap to build, cheap to run, and incredibly high impact. I love the success the school has had with lacrosse, but that will never get the fan base a successful hockey program brings. Just turn up at a Univ New Hampshire game (if you can get a ticket)… UAlbany can essentially buy themselves a top tier Hockey program on the cheap.

 

And, lastly in closing – Albany has a strong Hockey club sport and following going back to 1976. They’ve had some success (and are currently top ranked in their division!, and beating NCAA Div III teams), and I’m certain they can be leveraged to help bootstrap a Div-I Hockey program. If this is something we can work on, I’d be happy to be part of it, both financially and with my time.

 

Thanks for listening. I also think we need to refactor the “dorms” and “Quads” into “Colleges” (like Rice, Yale, Harvard, Oxford, etc. – Albany has a campus that makes this easy, and that other schools would love to have…) – but that’s a subject for another day.

 

Thank you. I know it’s tough times with the state budgets, but often out of crises come our most impressive ideas and opportunities. D-1 FBS football is a dream for when hedge funds and Wall St were riding high, pumping taxes into the NYS budget with abandon. Today’s budgets are for creative thinking, and I think Hockey is it for UAlbany in the near term!

 

All the best – looking forward to meeting with you at the next fundraiser if you’re out this way.

 

Sincerely,

[uofalbany]

I'd support the idea of a D1 hockey program in an instant.

 

Problem is, funding it.

 

What's the typical D1 hockey budget?

[uofalbany]

Our CLUB team does have a significant schedule and already has a list of expenses. I believe the club is financially supported by the student association.

So, the university actually already has an expense for hockey to some degree.

 

If we added men's hockey, and an equivelent womens program ( that is presently funded by the

student association ), then the other expense to consider would be facility.

 

At the home games, we play at Albany Academy. Curious if we already have that expense as well. Do we rent that space?

[UAalum72]

I'm sure rental of the Academy Rink is part of the team's budget.

 

SEFCU doesn't have the piping in the floor for an ice rink; I'd even question whether the floor is big enough to accomodate a standard 200x85 foot rink (basketball courts are what, 50x94? so even with the seats folded up, a rink crosswise to the 3 BB courts wouldn't leave room for more than a couple of thousand seats).

 

Plus these teams would stretch the ADept. staff, locker and SEFCU use times.

 

Much as I'd like it, first find a sugar daddy.

[Clickclack]

I don't see it ever happening.....we've been trying for years to build something that would pass for a football stadium....no way they stretch the budget even further by funding an expensive sport such as hockey.

[uofalbany]

I don't see it ever happening.....we've been trying for years to build something that would pass for a football stadium....no way they stretch the budget even further by funding an expensive sport such as hockey.

 

The only way possible in terms of facility is to come up with a TUC deal.

SEFCU is too small, and we wouldn't have money to expand facility.

I don't think it's far fetched to think that UA could eventually have a more popular following than RPI, Union, and the river rats combined.

I'd be a season ticket holder in a minute.

 

In terms of stretching the budget, I don't think you or anyone else for that matter can give a definitive NO before a comparison of the both current Club budgets involved, and the budgets of 'official' teams.

[B9j2j6s]

The cost would be sky high compared to a club team. The big reasons are the money to recruit, coaching staff and the building of infrastructure on campus. The next team to go DI will probably woman's crew, simply because there is already a boat house that the current club team rows out of, as well as Albany Rowing Center.

[Dane96]

As I have stated numerous times...FORGET IT.

 

1- Years ago, there was going to be a deal with a prominent business man to build a nice facility on the site of CESTM (prior to CESTM) where the Rats, Danes, and eventually Danes hockey would play. Done...never happened.

2- Hockey is RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE TO FUND...and you dont see much of a return.

3- What league would we join with star power...no spots open.

4- The title IX implications would be ridiculous.

5- All funding will be going towards 40 rides...and then if we move up in football...countering for women.

6- Baseball has to fundraise just to keep the team afloat.

7- We are having ANOTHER budget cut, while adept donations are down.

 

 

NEVER...EVER...EVER...happening until the following happen:

 

1. Albany gets to 63 rides in football.

2. We meet our title IX requirements.

3. Track and Field get their facility

4. Football field is built

5. Indoor football facility is built

6. Lax stadium is finished.

7. Women's Field Hockey gets their stands

8. Baseball stadium is moved

9. More general funding for things like bands, marketing, etc...are grown.

 

Hockey is FAR...FAR away...and not even a glimmer in anyone's eyes. AND I LOVE....LOVE HOCKEY...played on a travel team until I was 15.

[Dane96]

The cost would be sky high compared to a club team. The big reasons are the money to recruit, coaching staff and the building of infrastructure on campus. The next team to go DI will probably woman's crew, simply because there is already a boat house that the current club team rows out of, as well as Albany Rowing Center.

 

 

Ding Ding.

 

Crew, because of shell costs, and cheerleading will be "VARSITY STATUS" in order to meet Title IX demands down the road.

[UBBulls]

Someone out there created a quick spreadsheet comparing the financial data reported by D-1 programs:

 

NCAA College Hockey Financials

 

You were incorrect in your email stating UA hockey beat a NCAA D-3 team.. you beat Siena's ACHA D-3 team, not NCAA. Siena also has an ACHA D-2 team, thus why the UA hockey site listed "Siena D-3". UA's team is ACHA D-3 and had been D-2. Albany hockey needs to jump up to ACHA D-1 with the other Centers first. If they can't handle that financially, varsity status is as far away as D96 implies.

 

EDIT: Found an old thread on this looking for info: 2007 Hockey Thread

[purplenorange]

-- well, glad to see the interest .!

 

A few points I'd like to make on this though:

- Albany is already paying for ice time at Albany Academy.

- We are also paying for coaching staff at some level.

- To get Hockey to Title IX, you need two teams - so the proposal would be for that.

- We will never make the investment needed to get there with football. Time to 'cut bait'. Eventually we will come to this decision ourselves, and football will go as it has at Boston Univ, UVM. I think it will also 'go' at UB and Stony Brook before the decade is over...

 

 

Hockey teams are small and relatively cheap. The rink tends to be the bigger expense. The teams are 22 per side, so 100% rides on both squads = 44 scholarships.

 

The head coach at an Ivy-league school here in New England is getting $85k/yr.

 

As with most things, it's a question of 'will'. My BOE estimate is that for about $900k/yr they could upgrade the entire hockey program, adding both men's and women's on a course for D-I. This does not count any revenue received from the program (which would be small at first).

 

I don't know too many programs of this *impact* that we could have for <$1MM/yr. , and that doesn't include some increased revenue from a Div-1 program in Hockey in the Northeast. So it probably "nets out" to $750k/yr or something like that.

 

Here's how I do the math:

 

44 scholarships (22 men + 22 women) = $450k/yr.

4 coaches (men + women) = $450k/yr (loaded incl. benefits)

Travel = all hockey is bus travel in the Northeast -- so this is pretty cheap. ?$?k?

 

What's left ? Some meals? Uniforms? We already have ice (or are renting it).

 

 

Really though - crew? I live in Boston and work in Cambridge, so I love watching the crew teams out on the Charles. But I can't seriously see crew being the touchstone for a campus in the northeast that Hockey could be.

 

 

And when I take a strategic look at our school, as much as it pains me I'd kill football and bring in hockey. Why? We'll *never* get there with football. In my lifetime I do not believe we'll be seriously playing Rutgers or Syracuse, never mind the big midwestern state schools. And we have U-Buffalo, Stony brook, and UConn in the northeast already making a big push for FBS football. When I look over at our northeast peer institutions - UVM (hockey, no football), Boston Univ (hockey, no football), B*inghamton (no football). At UNH and Maine - well, yes, they play football - but if you go to a hockey game you get a much better sense of the pulse of the school.

 

And lastly, killing football will bring Title IX compliance quickly. Frankly we don't have the budget to support a real football program (and neither does UB or Stony Brook - but let them find out for themselves).

 

I think it's a huge mistake not to make this strategic change in the direction for our athletic program. Given a choice, I'd just "add hockey". But if that's not possible, I'd add hockey and kill football.

[danefan]

-- well, glad to see the interest .!

 

A few points I'd like to make on this though:

- Albany is already paying for ice time at Albany Academy.

- We are also paying for coaching staff at some level.

- To get Hockey to Title IX, you need two teams - so the proposal would be for that.

- We will never make the investment needed to get there with football. Time to 'cut bait'. Eventually we will come to this decision ourselves, and football will go as it has at Boston Univ, UVM. I think it will also 'go' at UB and Stony Brook before the decade is over...

 

 

Hockey teams are small and relatively cheap. The rink tends to be the bigger expense. The teams are 22 per side, so 100% rides on both squads = 44 scholarships.

 

The head coach at an Ivy-league school here in New England is getting $85k/yr.

 

As with most things, it's a question of 'will'. My BOE estimate is that for about $900k/yr they could upgrade the entire hockey program, adding both men's and women's on a course for D-I. This does not count any revenue received from the program (which would be small at first).

 

I don't know too many programs of this *impact* that we could have for <$1MM/yr. , and that doesn't include some increased revenue from a Div-1 program in Hockey in the Northeast. So it probably "nets out" to $750k/yr or something like that.

 

Here's how I do the math:

 

44 scholarships (22 men + 22 women) = $450k/yr.

4 coaches (men + women) = $450k/yr (loaded incl. benefits)

Travel = all hockey is bus travel in the Northeast -- so this is pretty cheap. ?$?k?

 

What's left ? Some meals? Uniforms? We already have ice (or are renting it).

 

 

Really though - crew? I live in Boston and work in Cambridge, so I love watching the crew teams out on the Charles. But I can't seriously see crew being the touchstone for a campus in the northeast that Hockey could be.

 

 

And when I take a strategic look at our school, as much as it pains me I'd kill football and bring in hockey. Why? We'll *never* get there with football. In my lifetime I do not believe we'll be seriously playing Rutgers or Syracuse, never mind the big midwestern state schools. And we have U-Buffalo, Stony brook, and UConn in the northeast already making a big push for FBS football. When I look over at our northeast peer institutions - UVM (hockey, no football), Boston Univ (hockey, no football), B*inghamton (no football). At UNH and Maine - well, yes, they play football - but if you go to a hockey game you get a much better sense of the pulse of the school.

 

And lastly, killing football will bring Title IX compliance quickly. Frankly we don't have the budget to support a real football program (and neither does UB or Stony Brook - but let them find out for themselves).

 

I think it's a huge mistake not to make this strategic change in the direction for our athletic program. Given a choice, I'd just "add hockey". But if that's not possible, I'd add hockey and kill football.

 

 

I stopped reading when you said we, Buffalo and Stony Brook would all be dropping football by the end the decade. You're kidding right?

 

my lifetime I do not believe we'll be seriously playing Rutgers or Syracuse

You do realize we are playing at Cincinatti in 2011 right?

 

 

Football and Basketball are the only sports that bring national attention and build school spirit. Hockey cannot even begin to compete with these sports. We'd drop baseball and men's soccer before we dropped football.

[Clickclack]

Wow...simply wow! Not sure what to say other then

[Dane96]

Never say this--- but by far the most misinformed poster to EVER GRACE THIS BOARD.

 

I could hack your post...but I wont. You just walked into $iena up to your ankles and dont even know it.

 

And, for the record, the ice time at AA is negligble for what it would cost to run a team...and no...the coaches are not FULLY PAID.

 

Lord have mercy on you. And no...to all of my fellow posters...the rest of your Dane fans living in Boston are not this delirious.

[uofalbany]

The history of this thread reminds me of my day today.

 

I decided to head out to the yard, which is quite big, and do another round

of leaf blowing and collecting. I really got quite a bit done. The dog was

outside supervising as well.

 

I was seeing a significant amount of promise in my efforts, when I started

smelling something... I looked down and I had stepped in my dog's poopy.

It was covering the entire bottom of my shoe.

 

I was in a REAL good mood about the situation, until my shoe was dripping with poop.

The entire episode put a sour taste in my mouth .

 

The job STARTED off nicely, until.............

It is quite reflective in how I felt after reading purple and oranges last post.