"As the Siena World Turns"

[Patch]

...........it's kind of ironic that Siena might not have all the control it boasts over the time during the day the game is played.

 

Olddog71 That's what I like about Siena they talk the talk but don't walk the walk. The Knick/Pepsi/Tuc is their exclusive home court but they are a second class citizen in the building.

 

I also have some sympathy for Siena in the Mensah affair. I may be from the old school, but I think that when a player signs on for a scholarship to play for a school that he should retain loyalty to the school under almost all circumstances. There are exceptions to the rule, but I don't think this case is one of them. -olddog71

 

As for the Mensah affair I too sympathize with Siena, but....

 

1. It is evident that they had to talk him into staying when Lanier was fired.

 

2. Evidently after the loss of two assistants Mensah had second thoughts about staying any longer, and the feelings from the previous year resurfaced.

 

3. Evidently a bond was not developed between the Head Coach and the Player. Who is at fault for that we'll never know.

 

4. Mensah handled the situation extremely poorly and in my opinion got some very suspect advice but Siena's reaction was equally as poor. In my opinion they should have given him an immediate conditional release rather then appear to hold him hostage - wasn't it stated in the TU that Kojo wouldn't be given a release and that he would not be allowed to play basketball at Siena - to me that reaks of "SPITEFULNESS".

 

5. I would hope that at UA if a kid doesn't want to be here our staff would get him a release ASAP (unconditional or conditional according to the situation).

 

6. Regardless of what the sophisticated Hoop Experts on the Siena site think - Siena's recent history with recruits will hurt their image and will be used by other DI coaches against them. The recruiting of athletes is devious at best.

[olddog71]

Patch,

 

As usual, you make some very good points. Good overall analysis of the situation.

[bob87]

The sole area of disagreement comes with the control Siena has over the date of the UAlbany game. I'm just not sure how much leeway the school has over the timing of the game, despite the fact that the venue is at their "home arena."

 

Other events at the Pepsi/TUC may have preference for the same date.

 

If so, it's kind of ironic that Siena might not have all the control it boasts over the time during the day the game is played.

 

15269[/snapback]

 

 

The River Rats have priority over Siena. I haven't seen their schedule, but rumor is they are home at night after our game just like last year. We also know based on last season that the WWE also has priority to make Siena move the time of a game. And there are probably more that I don't know about.

 

As far as the Kojo situation, I agree with Patch especially point number 4. Also it is not like they handled McClinton much better last year.

[statefan]

In one of the Times Union articles on the subject, there was an indication that Siena had a faculty/staff committee, chaired by Paul Dwyer (a local attorney who teaches business law at Siena) to (and i'm para-phrasing here) resolve disputes between the athletic director and the student-athlete, and that if an agrrement was not reached, this committee would make the final determination as to whether to give Kojo a release and under what conditions.

 

I assume that we have a similar committee in the event a similar situation arose at our university. Do we? Who is on it? Who chairs it? How are its members appointed? Just curious.

[GODANESGO]

Ok, I tried to stay out of this discussion, but I found something worth posting on it. In today's SI On-Campus online, Lou Gosset was listed as "NOT" in their weekly Hot or Not list for his involvement in the "Sienna" and Kojo situation..lol.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/sion...0704/index.html

[bob87]

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp...wsdate=7/6/2006

 

 

The latest on the Siena or is it Sienna soap opera including some funny quotes from D'arg.

"D'Argenio said he's unconcerned that taking a hard line with Mensah will tarnish Siena's reputation among potential recruits."

 

Yeah that probably has already happened.

 

"He said he wants to make clear that Siena is not a stepping-stone school, where players can hone their skills for a year or two, then transfer to a major conference."

 

He need not worry about that if he continues to damage Siena's reputation.

 

Lastly, I am not sure what gives him the right to review a list of schools that KoJo would want to transfer to. Again block Duquesne, the maac and any other particular school as needed.

 

Stay tuned.

[Patch]

From today's TU article......

 

Siena stands to lose more than its reputation. The NCAA tracks retention and graduation through its Academic Progress Rate. Programs that fall below a certain score are subject to scholarship losses.

Siena's score figures to drop with the transfers of Mensah, McClinton and Levi Osby, who left after this past season. Also, because he is pursuing a professional basketball career, senior Antoine Jordan did not graduate this spring and might not for several years.

 

bob87 - you failed to pick up on one of the major points of the article - Siena was at 917 in the Academic Progress Rate(APR), last season with the acceptable rate I believe at 925. With the defections of McClinton, Osby, and Mensah (just to name a few) plus the fact that Jordan will pursue a professional career and put off college graduation.

 

The select "Private" elite educational institution called Siena is along with Iona at the bottom of the MAAC in APR and it could get alot worse. They could lose scholarships in the near future.

 

It is the nature of DI Basketball that every recruit's dream is that they are going to the "League" or will sign a lucrative overseas contact.

 

A certain amount of transfers will naturally occur. Some players can't start on their own college team and transfer, some don't like the atmosphere at the school and some want to transfer to a higher level for more exposure.

 

I really think that the Siena fans should stop being so overly protective and start realizing that it's time to start looking at the administration that watches over its program.

 

Siena should seek to be a competitive MAAC Basketball program and stop trying to be the "Crown Jewel of the MAAC".

 

I hope UA stays very competitive but I also want to retain as many Student Athletes as possible and Graduate those that do stay. There should be no trade off in order to become more successful.

 

This year's team was a good example of that. Knotts, Zoellner, Jamar and Lu all graduated and Levi is finishing up now.

[Clickclack]

Bob,

 

I think Siena is fully within their right to do what ever they wish in regards to the school he attends. If this happened to us I’d probably be just as angry as most of the Siena fans. Just a couple of random thoughts.....if they do nothing then this will grow into a problem with their being prior precedence of this happening with other players, so sooner or later they had to take a harsh stance to discourage this type of things from happening every year. Mensah no doubt screwed Siena by giving them absolutely no advanced warning, leaving them with no time to fill his position. You can’t tell me he didn’t know prior to June 15 that he’s thinking about transferring, not to mention all the background stuff with this Norm character from NYC etc. He screwed Siena and I think Siena has every right to approve the school he transfers to.....If I was Siena I’d approve only Savannah St.

[UAalum72]

Unless a scholarship has a non-compete clause in it before it's signed, then once a school refuses to renew a scholarship, how can it tell a player where he can't play? The player fulfilled his end of that 'essentially one-year contract' by playing last year. What leverage do they have now? If it's an agreement among the NCAA institutions, that sounds like restraint of trade.

 

Restricting a player from signing with your own league can be seen as the price the player pays for getting his release, but from the entire NCAA?

[Clickclack]

Unless a scholarship has a non-compete clause in it before it's signed, then once a school refuses to renew a scholarship, how can it tell a player where he can't play? The player fulfilled his end of that 'essentially one-year contract' by playing last year. What leverage do they have now? If it's an agreement among the NCAA institutions, that sounds like restraint of trade.

 

Restricting a player from signing with your own league can be seen as the price the player pays for getting his release, but from the entire NCAA?

15284[/snapback]

 

 

No-one is barring him from playing in the entire NCAA, he was asked to submit a list which he chose not to. What Mensah is pushing for is an unconditional release, in my opinion that’s crap. I realize that if this were to happen with someone at UA I would out of spite not give them what they want, especially the way he screwed Siena. Is that wrong and is the high road a better road to take in this types of matter…….probably! But I just don’t have it in me, he screwed them and they are supposed to capitulate and give him what he wants (unconditional release), good for them for standing up to him.

[Patch]

bosiydid - I' am basically in agreement that Kojo made a bad decision and his timing was atrocious, but give the kid a "conditional release" and get on with life.

 

Does two wrongs make a right??????

 

If Brent asked for a release at the same time as Kojo I would have been very upset but no matter what life goes on.

 

If the team is again successful this year and Coach Brown gets a chance to go to a higher level and opts out, I would be upset but that's the nature of the business1

 

If coaches can opt out, if school's can opt not to renew a scholarship, why shouldn't a student/athlete have the option to do what he/she thinks is best for themselves.

 

We don't have to like the decisions of others but we should respect their right to make decisions.

[UAalum72]

No-one is barring him from playing in the entire NCAA, he was asked to submit a list which he chose not to.

15285[/snapback]

Did you read the T-U story?

"But for now, he is neither welcome to return to the men's basketball team nor allowed to seek a scholarship elsewhere.

[Clickclack]

No-one is barring him from playing in the entire NCAA, he was asked to submit a list which he chose not to.

15285[/snapback]

Did you read the T-U story?

"But for now, he is neither welcome to return to the men's basketball team nor allowed to seek a scholarship elsewhere.

15287[/snapback]

 

 

Guys and Gals,

 

I know we want to make Siena the villain here and say look how terrible they are, but short of a PR disaster for Siena I don’t think they are doing anything wrong in principal. He is not welcome back to Siena but he was offered the opportunity to submit a list of schools, we can argue if Siena has the right to limit what school he goes to. But Mensah was looking for an unconditional release, in my opinion that is completely out of the question. So lets see, he is not welcome back, he was asked to submit additional documentation to secure a conditional release and refused to do so, evidently pushing for an unconditional release. If this had happened at UA no-one here would be in favor of an unconditional release. As much as we all rail on Siena and poke fun at the cool-aid drinking homers on that other board, I can’t say I blame Siena for handling it this way. Perhaps their process could be more refined and a better attempt to get their side of the story out, but as far as the meat and potatoes of this issue, I think they are right on. I know I’m in the minority but so be it!

Edited July 6, 2006 by bosiydid

[KingDane]

I can't imagine any institution allowing a student to walk around campus with the stench of Siena on them.

[bob87]

Why should he have to submit a list any more than those of us that are employees would have to submit a list of potential new employers to our current employer should we quit? Because D'arg said so? Give me a break!

 

As far as UA, I would hope all our players still want to be here. If they didn't I would hope we would handle it with more class than Siena has and find someone else who wanted to be there.

 

Look in the real world people switch jobs all the time whether it is "screws the employer" or not. You follow the procedure and move on. I think Siena should do the same and follow the procedure which would seem to be a conditional release and then move on.

Edited July 6, 2006 by bob87