"As the Siena World Turns"

[Patch]

olddog71 - I am in total agreement with what you post. There is no doubt Siena is legally on solid ground and Kojo and his advisors are way off base and totally wrong in how they are handling the situation..

 

I just have a couple of points that confuse me -

 

1. This list stuff for KOJO is crap - Give Kojo an conditional release no MAAC schools no Duquense (or anyothers you think were tampering) end of story. Siena should take the "Bull by the Horns" and say this is what we're doing you are on your own, not - If you reconsider we might take you back??????

 

2. I find comments by Gorvy

I hope our fans don't wish the ill will I've seen your fans display.

and others coming here from their site as offbase. When for years all they have done is express nothing but a condescending attitude towards UA, its coaching staff and its players.

 

... UA can't compete at their level

... UA won't be able to recruit MAAC/Siena level players

... UA exaggerates everything and of course Siena doesn't

... Their Coach and his wife both get thrown out of a game and no apology is given or expected by their administration and/or fans - because what ever they do is justified and right. If that happened at UA they would be all over it like "stink on crap". When was the last time you even heard of such a bizarre thing happening - Bobby Knight????, Bobby Huggins????, Dean Smith????, Paul Hewitt????????

 

"This too shall pass" but if there is to be a true rivalry, opposing sides must get under the other's skin everyonce in awhile for the "Good of the Rivalry". Stuff like this is just "fuel for the fire".

 

For those Siena Fans who don't want to even acknowledge it's a rivalry check the attendance figures - even when Siena schedules it at an inconvenient Date and time like last season.

[Clickclack]

Gorvy,

 

If you read through this thread you’ll notice that I came down pretty definitively on Siena’s side. I only hope that when/if we are ever confronted with a similar situation our AD would have the balls to stand up to such tactics. Not everyone wishes ill-will on this issue. Granted I want to kill you on the court but this is simply sad and disturbing for Siena and Kojo.

[bob87]

Gorvy,

 

If you read through this thread you’ll notice that I came down pretty definitively on Siena’s side.  I only hope that when/if we are ever confronted with a similar situation our AD would have the balls to stand up to such tactics.  Not everyone wishes ill-will on this issue.  Granted I want to kill you on the court but this is simply sad and disturbing for Siena and Kojo.

15372[/snapback]

 

 

Bosiydid

 

I said it before. If a kid wants to leave UA (and kids have left in the past as no school is immune to kids leaving) I hope we handle it much better than Siena has. To me, it is not about standing up in a similar situation. Even if the player is getting the "worst advice" in the world and has not acted well, if he wants to leave letting him go is "the lesser of the 2 evils". You can't force him to stay. The school should be "the bigger person". You can still go after the tampering school or the street agent under appropriate channels, but once the player leaves in this manner it is too late for him to stay with your school. Get over it and move on. Conditional release. End of story.

Also I know that Siena is acting legally within the NCAA guidelines, but that doesn't make what they are doing with the Kojo case right in my opinion. Not all NCAA rules are logical.

I don't necessarily want evil things to happen to Siena, but I do want them to suffer consequences for what I perceive to be a lack of class in this situation.

That is just my opinion.

And I understand those who opinion is Kojo should not get what he wants or suffer consequences for his role in this fiasco.

[olddog71]

I said it before. If a kid wants to leave UA (and kids have left in the past as no school is immune to kids leaving) I hope we handle it much better than Siena has. To me, it is not about standing up in a similar situation. Even if the player is getting the "worst advice" in the world and has not acted well, if he wants to leave letting him go is "the lesser of the 2 evils". You can't force him to stay. The school should be "the bigger person". You can still go after the tampering school or the street agent under appropriate channels, but once the player leaves in this manner it is too late for him to stay with your school. Get over it and move on. Conditional release. End of story.

Also I know that Siena is acting legally within the NCAA guidelines, but that doesn't make what they are doing with the Kojo case right in my opinion. Not all NCAA rules are logical.

I don't necessarily want evil things to happen to Siena, but I do want them to suffer consequences for what I perceive to be a lack of class in this situation.

That is just my opinion.

And I understand those who opinion is Kojo should not get what he wants or suffer consequences for his role in this fiasco.

15374[/snapback]

bob87,

 

I agree with some of what you say, but I also think the kid should suffer some consequences too. His timeliness was wrong, and the school could suffer as a result of it. It's not too demanding to expect that the kid should have some responsibility when he does not follow the rules. He had more than ample opportunity to make his intentions known before the deadlines. Maybe a hard lesson for him now, but perhaps he will learn from it.

 

It seems that Siena did give this kid some options, including a conditional release, but the kid either rejected the offer or did not go through the prescribed routine. Too bad for him. When you break the rules, don't expect the other side to make even more concessions to you. Mensah had options.

 

Personally, I don't understand Mensah's rationale for leaving Siena. It's not such a bad school in basketball, and the kid's other choices for attending are not that much better, considering that he would have to sit out a year anyway. How much does he gain from that, but I'm not in his shoes, so perhaps I don't really understand his position.

 

Yes, I agree that Siena is not going to get this kid back. Offering him back his scholarship and a position on the team again is not going to work when the situation has gotten so far out of hand, but I am also somewhat sure that we don't know the whole story on how negotiations went. I can easily imagine that Mensah and his lawyer (whom I really blame most for the current predicament) put so much pressure on Siena with their threats that the athletic administration was backed into a corner and was far less willing to relent on all the kid's demands.

 

Those of you who follow my comments here on this board and on Siena's board know very well that I am not a Siena apologist and that I speak up when I feel their posters start insulting us, but in this situation I think the school is getting a bad rap when they're not entirely responsible.

[JonUA97]

You guys are having fun now, but wait until this happens to your school.  I hope our fans don't wish the ill will I've seen your fans display. 

 

JG

15362[/snapback]

Too late - they did when Gallup transferred.

 

And what has anyone 'wished' on Siena? Like when Will Rogers said that if he ran out of comedy material, he just opened up the Congressional Record, all we're doing is reading the paper.

15363[/snapback]

 

Few points from the fat guy....

 

As many of you know when EJ 'transferred' I said good riddance to him.

 

He was a pain in the a**, His father was a pain in the a** and I was happy to see both of them no longer affiliated with the program.

 

Mentioned in a later post was the fact that recruiting is a 'dirty business' I agree, I totally suspect a FORMER UA coach cut an inside deal with this piece of crap primadonna from Gloversville. See you Coach! See you kid! See you Dad! All of you can go fly a kite together!

 

As far as my 'wishing' ill will on Siena, I do that all the time so my treatment of the Siena program is no different than the rest of the year.

 

I must admit I think that the UA program has more class than the Siena program. Take for instance that incident that occurred at University Arena (the former Physical Fitness Center) in Hempstead, NY with the Siena Coach and his wife. Coach and Mrs. Brown would NEVER behave like that. From eyewitness accounts not affiliated with either program (Siena or Hofstra) relayed directly to me, Coach and Mrs. Mc Caffery clearly stepped over the line with their poor behavior.

 

When it comes to poor behavior I say, keep it in the stands where it belongs. Never let it become the face of your program. Of course I have the advantage of not being affiliated with either program I'm just a fan and I never need my wife or girlfriend to stand up for me. I take care of business all by myself. When I get tossed out I take it like a man and head for Broadway Joe's, Side Door Cafe or the nearest local watering hole. My girlfriend gets to stay with my friends and enjoy the rest of the game. That is why we have a pre-planned meeting spot after games.

 

I think that if Siena fans knew what was good for them they would have been calling for the coach's head after this season. They did not.

 

I'm a home team guy who always wishes ill will on the Loudonville Community College and all of their ‘athletic’ teams 24/7/365.25 and as I have said many times before....

 

 

SSS

[Clickclack]

Bob,

 

Should Kojo get a conditional or an unconditional release?

 

If you were to say that he should get a conditional release then I’d tell you that Siena has asked for a list of schools and Kojo and his band of losers has declined to provide a list…..obviously seeking an unconditional release. In my opinion, no way in hell should he EVER get an unconditional release even though it is exactly what they are trying to do with these scare tactics and now the lowest of all lows, pulling out the race card. I think allot of us need to put basketball and this rivalry in proper perspective after all it’s just basketball. UA has never to my knowledge been embroiled in a situation like this, but I’m willing to bet if we were dealing with something similar, the reaction would be almost identical to Siena fans.

 

Most people know I’m no Siena apologist, I think they’ve done some things terrible wrong in this whole thing. None bigger then their idiot AD stating directly or indirectly that he still has not given away the scholarship and would consider giving it back to Kojo. Are you kidding me?????????????????????????????? Can you imagine the cancer Kojo would be in the locker room. I mean everyone would have this incident at the front of their mind in any dealings or conversations with Kojo. In my opinion that bridge burned a long time ago and the AD’s credibility suffered terribly with that stupid comment. At this point Siena has nothing to gain from dragging this out and should try to release Kojo as quickly as possible. If they do take him back by some miracle then Siena should be laughed at by every college basketball fan from sea to shining sea.

Edited July 17, 2006 by bosiydid

[olddog71]

JonUA97,

 

I agree with many of your points.

 

Here's where I disagree. I don't think bad behavior is good anywhere. Here's just one of my objections to it to which I think you might agree. Bad behavior reflects poorly on our beloved school. It becomes more acute when our school is doing well because it allows others' opinions of us to become more justifiable when their main motive for criticizing us may be more based on jealousy or rage or some other emotion.

 

A few people on the AE board, for example, criticized poor behavior of some of our fans at some home games this year. I have to agree with some of their objections, and some of these people who criticized UAlbany actions are people whom I very much respect. I am really proud of how our fans generally react, and I really enjoyed the long overdue appreciation from the student body this last season, and I don't want anything to detract from the increasing respect we seem to be gaining from everyone in the college basketball world. Yes, I want other teams to fear coming to the RACC because of the support we give our teams, rather than the disrespect we show our opponents. The final AE conference game against Vermont is a very good example of how we can legitimately intimidate others by our positive support.

 

Yes, I agree that Mrs. McCaffery overstepped the boundaries here. A coach and his family have higher behavioral expectations than others, and she went overboard. But why should Siena can the coach based on this one incident? The coach, whether you want it or not, has brought back respectability to a program that went 6-24 the season before. And, they beat us.

 

Besides that, I don't have major objections to what you have to say, and I greatly admire your loyalty to the team, especially when you have to travel long distances to view our Great Danes.

[GODANESGO]

Bob,

 

Should Kojo get a conditional or an unconditional release?

 

If you were to say that he should get a conditional release then I’d tell you that Siena has asked for a list of schools and Kojo and his band of losers has declined to provide a list…..obviously seeking an unconditional release.

15377[/snapback]

 

I happen to agree that he should get a conditional release (MAAC schools and if they see a problem with Duquense, add them), but it seems like a list of schools was given. The TU article from this weekend has Kojo's people saying a list of 4 schools was given (SJU, Providence, Duquense, and UMass), so the Siena AD then changed his story and said that those schools were given, but called it an informal list. "Informal" (it was over the phone) or not, the AD asked for schools from Kojo's camp and was given schools...so it's pretty hard to see the AD's side here.

 

I would imagine that since Duquense is on Kojo's list, that if Siena were to "reject" a transfer to that school but permit the other 3, they would be forced (not legally I would assume) to come out with a real reason why..other than just continuing to talk about "suspisions."

 

Both sides are really stuck between a rock and a hard place. I understand why Siena is doing this, but it's not really a situation they can come out looking good in no matter what they do now. And with Kojo, I understand he's a student who generally should have the choice to go to a place of higher education of his desire, but he did really screw over the team and school that was investing ~$30,000 a year on him.

 

I don't envy either sides' situation right now.

[bob87]

Bob,

 

Should Kojo get a conditional or an unconditional release?

 

15377[/snapback]

 

 

My opinion is that if he is to get a conditional release excluding Duquesne that there ought to be more of a reason than Darg has suspicions that there was tampering and that he doesn't want Siena to be a stepping stone program.

If they don't have proof Siena should shut shut up and end this mockery.

If they don't have proof they shouldn't care where Kojo wants to go as long as it is not to the Maac where he could help his new team beat Siena.

So the answer to your question is conditional release excluding MAAC schools and any school Siena has proof against.

Yes, Kojo has helped make this a mockery and a public relations disaster. But it is not like Siena's whining and controlling ways hasn't played a big part of this.

I think we are getting BS on both sides.

Come on, going to Duquesne to get better shot at the NBA. That obviously is BS. I would respect Kojo more if he just said Siena sucks, I don't like the coach, it is not the school for me, I want to play with my friend or whatever.

And as for Darg, if he is dragging this on only because of suspicions he is the biggest idiot in division 1 sports. If he has more, step up to the table.

Lastly, I am not as upset on the timing as others. Again I feel we are not getting the whole story. We don't know what pushed Kojo over the edge to leave. The assistant leaving could have been the last straw. He could have talked to Fran before this came out in mid June. He may just want to screw Siena. I don't know. It seems to me that when Siena has nothing else they whine on the timing. Last year they were whining that McClinton left too soon without giving the new coach a chance. This year it is too late. I am not buying that as an excuse.

[Dane Pound]

For the most part I've stayed out of this topic because I find the whole topic unseemly as best and I'm sure there's facts involved that I don't know about.

 

This seems like a lot of ink and a lot of shouting for whether it will be a conditonal or unconditional release. Mensah can transfer wherever he likes, the question will be if he'll have to pay a years tutition (conditonal) or not (unconditional). Forgive me if I'm underwhelmed but I and probably millions of other college students payed loans on all four years.

 

I honestly had a lot more sympathy before what seems like the sleaziest lawyer in NYC got involved.

[Patch]

Well, thank goodness it appears the Kojo mess is finally over.

 

This should be good and bad for Siena Fans......

 

The "Good" ... Siena won on the legal front, which I knew they would because they had the legal right to do what they did. Also this should end the amount of not so positive press Siena has recieved, locally and nationally.

 

The "Bad" ... This should close the "Lanier Era" - But, now when something goes wrong who will the Siena Faithful blame?

[alum73]

I think it will be detrimental to Siena's recruiting efforts. For Bob87 and Jon, that's also a "good". I find it pretty interesting that we rarely seem to be recruiting the same kids. You would think we would be looking at similar athletes.

[Patch]

More class (lessness) displayed on the Siena site.......

 

SaintsFan

1279 posts Jul-24th-06  12:41 PM

 

9. "Re: I was under the impression ..."

In response to message #8

 

I only came up with this on Patry

 

Patry's Daughter

 

Patry is a Prog Spec 3 with NY State Office of Mental Health

 

I can try to look further if ya like

 

Evidently a mother writes about the Kojo situation - so right away a "Saints Fan" has to do a quick search and place a link to the suspects daughter, who happens to be an outstanding UMass athlete..

 

A real class (less) move but typical for the Siena site. Dare anyone to speak their opinion or speak against Siena's actions and they'll expose your place of work as well as your child's college.

 

Saints Fan is a real man's Man

Edited July 25, 2006 by Patch

[olddog71]

More class (lessness) displayed on the Siena site.......

 

Evidently a mother writes about the Kojo situation - so right away a "Saints Fan" has to do a quick search and place a link to the suspects daughter, who happens to be an outstanding UMass athlete..

 

A real class (less) move but typical for  the Siena site. Dare anyone to speak their opinion or speak against Siena's actions and they'll expose your place of work as well as your child's college.

 

Saints Fan is a real man's Man         

15434[/snapback]

 

I feel worse about the personal attacks on you in the same thread. Someone simply assumed that you were the author of the letter.

 

Then someone else - someone for whom I had more respect - assumed certain erroneous facts about your sexuality which I find very disrespectful. Dane96, thankfully, chose to respond effectively to those allegations. Thankfully, few people decided to respond to comments made on that thread. If others had decided to jump in, I would have responded much less positively than Dane96. You are the one who has chosen not to comment here about those statements. You are the one who has shown some class in this little matter. Of course, since you are banned on their site, you don't even have the right to defend yourself.

 

Some people over there have a tendency to choose to make ridiculous statements based on scant evidence and then instigate arguments with people from other schools. If I had been the moderator over there, I would have cut that discussion off right away. Second option would have been to send the thread over to the Smack Board. Third, I would have temporarily banned those who had made the obnoxious remarks. None of these actions occurred.

 

But what do you expect from people who assume that they are the "Crown Jewel of the MAAC?"

[Patch]

olddog71 and Dane96 Thank you!!! for your thoughts and actions.

 

I was always told to take the source into consideration and in this case it's some embittered Saints Fans. I didn't expect their moderator to do anything, he is what he is.

 

Those on the Siena site who truly dislike me are that way because I usually back up my opinions with facts and they can't handle/tolerate that.

 

I disagree with their fan's opinions and I substantiate my position with fact. I don't knock their team I knock what they say about their team.

 

They are the self proclaimed "Crown Jewel of the MAAC" and have numerous inherent advantages yet they've struggled the last 5 years just to be a middle of the pack team, THAT"S A FACT!!!!!!!

 

06 - 4th Place

05 - 9th Place

04 - 6th Place

03 - 3rd Place

02 - 6th Place

Edited July 25, 2006 by Patch