"As the Siena World Turns"

[UAalum72]

Siena could just as easily have given him a list of schools he can't go to - say, the MAAC and any non-conference teams they expect to play over the next two years - and offered an immediate release on that basis.

 

He's going to play where he wants to, but without a release he has to wait a year.

 

If a scholarship really is a one-year contract, how can they say it's cancelled, but he also can't play anywhere else? If it's cancelled, he should be free of them.

 

Is the school denied use of the scholarship while he waits out the year?

 

I'm guessing the main reason for the transfer rules to prevent bigger schools luring players from lesser programs. If there's evidence of tampering by Duquesne, they should go after Everhart, because he's the real problem. If a student approaches another school, it's up to that coach to send him back with a lesson in ethics.

[Clickclack]

Why should he have to submit a list any more  than those of us that are employees would have to submit a list of potential new employers to our current employer should we quit? Because D'arg said so? Give me a break!

 

As far as UA, I would hope all our players still want to be here. If  they didn't I would hope we would handle it with more class than Siena has and find someone else who wanted to be there.

 

Look in the real world people switch jobs all the time whether it is "screws the employer" or not.  You follow the procedure and move on. I think Siena should do the same and follow the procedure which would seem to be a conditional release and then move on.

15290[/snapback]

 

 

Bob,

 

Because there was/is no list, as all this time he was being steered to one school and one school only. He had no potential suitors and he was not being actively recruited away from Siena……except for Everheart and the old man from Brooklyn. It’s fine and dandy to say if this happened with UA that you would hope we handle this with more class. I personally would hope that we have the mental fortitude to stand up to these types of Machiavellian tactics because today it’s Siena……tomorrow it’s UA. The whole sad thing is that Kojo stands to lose the most, and then perhaps Siena with the potential loss of scholarships. This whole thing is a shame, it’s one thing to rib Siena fans about their cool-aid drinking ways and arrogance but at some point we have to take a stand as fans of college basketball and say there have to be some limits. And one last thing...how do you know what conditions to put on the release when you have no idea if that old guy is steering him just to Pit. or rumored other schools. Like I said in my prior post I’m glad Siena is taking a hard stance with Kojo. It will make people like Norm and Everheart think twice about doing something of this nature. For me this is more about recruiting tactics across the board/conferences rather then Siena.

[Clickclack]

Siena could just as easily have given him a list of schools he can't go to - say, the MAAC and any non-conference teams they expect to play over the next two years - and offered an immediate release on that basis.

 

He's going to play where he wants to, but without a release he has  to wait a year.

 

If a scholarship really is a one-year contract, how can they say it's cancelled, but he also can't play anywhere else? If it's cancelled, he should be free of them.

 

Is the school denied use of the scholarship while he waits out the year?

 

I'm guessing the main reason for the transfer rules to prevent bigger schools luring players from lesser programs. If there's evidence of tampering by Duquesne, they should go after Everhart, because he's the real problem. If a student approaches another school, it's up to that coach to send him back with a lesson in ethics.

15291[/snapback]

 

 

U,

 

I understand your point about the school having the right to terminate a scholoship and effectively kick a player off the team not to mention the money and revenue that is generated at times dwarfing the scholarship they handed out…..basically injustice done to college players etc. But I don’t think it applies in this case. The reason I support the stance Siena has taken is because I’m annoyed as hell that people like Norm and Everheart get away with this kind of stuff. Everyone with a half of brain knows what happened here, because it happened with a NU player also. There has to be a limit to raiding programs, essentially what happened here. The reason they are requesting a list from Kojo is in effect to ferret out exactly where Norm is steering him, if it’s not to Everheart then where? The whole thing is sad….in the end Kojo will be the biggest loser in this mess.

[Patch]

.......Like I said in my prior post I’m glad Siena is taking a hard stance with Kojo. It will make people like Norm and Everheart think twice about doing something of this nature. For me this is more about recruiting tactics across the board/conferences rather then Siena. - bosiydid

 

Even I am getting tired of this thread - Siena has the right and can do anything they want.

 

But to ask Kojo to give them a list is ridiculous no other school can officially talk to him until he gets a release so therefore how can he make a list he doesn't know what is available scholarship wise?

 

If Siena has a belief or some information that schools were tampering then give Kojo a conditional release and list those schools as schools he cannot go to.

 

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.....It will make people like Norm and Everheart think twice about doing something of this nature....

 

If you truly believe Siena's stance will affect those that tamper with athletes you know nothing about DI Men's Hoops. This is a minor incident in the scope of reality and will have "ZERO" impact on how DI business is effected.

 

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If Siena was everything they think they are - why would anyone ever want to leave that "UTOPIA".

 

Sometime someone has to look at Siena's recent track record and realize that in some minimal way the Siena Athletic Department and the Siena's Administration has to take some heat.

 

Look at a young man like Scoop Jordan a "Good Guy" who Siena used for 4 years and we now find out that even if he stayed around he wouldn't graduate until December, Four years and three summers and it wasn't enough to get him close to wearing a "Cap & Gown". Where was the Administration on that one?

 

Siena says that Kojo betrayed them and used them I say they betrayed and used "Scoop" but noone from the Siena side is shocked by that.

[Clickclack]

Even I am getting tired of this thread - Siena has the right and can do anything they want.....

 

.......If Siena was everything they think they are - why would anyone ever want to leave that "UTOPIA".........

 

 

Why don’t you just come out and say it, you are glad Siena is being screwed. I bet if the roles were reversed and it was Jamar leaving you would be screaming for his and his advisors head. But since this is happening to Siena you are willing to turn a blind eye because it doesn’t affect you or the team you follow.

 

So just because Siena’s actions will have no effect on D1 hoops or the way business is done, they should just let it go? I disagree with the status quo that you are advocating. On one hand you have unethical coaches and “advisors” polluting the recruiting environment and on the other hand ethical coaches having to deal with ramifications. If more institutions and coaches were interested in turning out great people instead of getting what they can from inexperienced young men and woman we would all be better for it. But I’m not here to give you or anyone else a lesson on ethics, I think I’ve made my point as clear as I possibly can. I respect you and your opinion even though it differs from my view of this situation.

 

Peace!

[Patch]

bosiydid - "PEACE"

 

I didn't know we were at war!!!!!!!

 

Opinions are great everyone should have their own and I respect that!

 

But.....Please don't tell me what my reaction would be in a Hypothetical situation. It's not happening here for many reasons.

 

Let me clarify this my life doesnot revolve around individual college hoopsters. I love Great Danes Athletics but I can survive without it.

 

Just so you know - believe it or not - if Jamar were in the same situation as Kojo, I too would be upset but I would say good bye, Thanks for the Memories and here's you conditional release.

 

I would not knock Jamar as the Siena fans knock Kojo - 2 months ago Kojo was a "God" now he should be punished heavily for not wanting to be at Siena.

 

Remember he wanted out when Lanier was let go and was talked into staying. He's a sophmore in college he's not some 50 year old worldly businessman.

 

I totally respect what you have to say and of course your right to say it. This is definitely an open forum - for that I thank Dane Pound.

[bob87]

bosiydid

 

 

I respect your opinion. But no one has answered my question as to why Kojo should submit a list to D'arg.

Now someone on another board had said that is how conditional releases work. That Siena would send the release to the schools he named.

But not being an insider, that would seem odd to me. As others have stated here how can one list schools when they can't even officially talk to other schools until after the release.

Also if Siena was to send a release to the schools he named why wouldn't he just name all 300+ Division 1 schools and go from there. And Siena would say no maac and no Duquense or whatever.

Well, there are a lot of things with the NCAA and this in particular that don't make sense to me.

 

But enough on that. Can't wait until our basketball schedule comes out so I can start planning some basketball trips. Also 58 days until football season.

[Clickclack]

Patch,

 

The “Peace” reference was more a figure of speech like “peace out” or what have you. Didn’t mean to imply that we were at war.

 

Later!

[Patch]

bosiydid - PEACE

 

I never felt we were at war.

 

Its always great to have spirited conversation especially in the off season.

 

It's great when people can openly express their opinions and even when not in agreement be respectful of each other.

 

Later!!!!

[bob87]

Indian91 - I'm in full agreement with you! Who does your AD have pictures of????

 

 

 

 

 

It appears the answer to this question is Rev. Kevin Mackin.

Well the latest in the daily soap opera.

 

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story...wsdate=7/7/2006

[Patch]

You can't make this stuff up!!!!!!

 

FRom the Siena site.......

 

"Re: Mackin backs AD on Mensah"

In response to message #1

     

 

 

Based on Father Mackin's comments, I think it is unlikely that the appeals committee made up of Siena faculty members (who work for Father Mackin) would rule in favor of Team Ostrin. I think it's time Mensah started filling out those financial aid forms.

 

Atleast one Siena fan expects that there is no honesty or integrity at Siena. They realize that at Siena even important appeals panels are controlled by one of the sides at conflict. No matter the outcome Lets hope that the panel will have the "balls" to make a decision based on the information brought to them.

 

 

[Clickclack]

“…should not be allowed to seek a scholarship at another Division I school.” - TU What they are saying is that they won’t release him to ANY school and not just to MACC and Duquesne. Wow, that is a stretch and I think they are off their rocker! No school??????? I was for them taking a hard line but this is way beyond what I was thinking. Crazy!

[KingDane]

If I'm reading correctly, a young man, a student, for whatever reason wishes to leave one college and seek admittance and a scholarship at another - and is being denied that opportunity by the school president.

 

Is the student an indentured servant? Shouldn't the president of the college, one who's primary responsibility is to inspire and encourage the advancement of learning and individual development - hold the best interest of the student as primary?

 

For whatever reason, if any student, after sufficient consultation decides to move on - he should not only be permitted, he should be encouraged to follow his dreams and pursue opportunities elsewhere. If it doesn't work out, well, that is life - that is how each of us grows and develops.

 

What Siena should be doing is looking inward. What is it specifically, that initially attracts young and talented men - only to have them wish to depart prematurely.

[olddog71]

I haven't weighed in much on this controversy, but I think Siena is mostly right on this issue. The biggest mistake on the Kojo Mensah's part is not notifying the kid in a timely manner. If he had announced his decision to leave back in the early spring, then what Siena is doing to the kid now would be nothing more than vindictive.

 

But the kid waits until it is virtually too late for the school to react to his departure and the consequent void in their lineup. That stinks!

 

If the school had done something wrong to him during his tenure at the school, he has weapons at his disposal to deal with them in a legal way. So Mensah should suffer consequences as well. He has an advisor and a lawyer in addition to give him good advice, and they have not served him well. Maybe they just thought the school would cave without any consequences.

 

Mensah is thinking only of himself and not of the school at all. I'm sorry, but there has to be mutual respect, as there has been mutual benefit to each other for the time the kid has been at Siena. It works both ways.

 

Believe me, if there were mitigating circumstances that made it very difficult for the kid to thrive at Siena, then I would be much more sympathetic to him. But he worked for a whole year under the new coach and certainly was a productive player for the school. It Mensah were really dissatisfied with the school or the coach, he should have signalled his intention to leave months ago. There is no indication of that intention. Too bad! The kid has to wait a year to play ball anyway at the Division I level.

 

The kid had to submit a list of schools in which he was interested to the Siena AD. Maybe the AD is wrong with requiring the kid to submit the list, rather than giving the student a list where the kid could apply, but the AD, according to the Times-Union, was under a time obligation as well - July 1. If the kid had communicated his desire earlier, then the AD would have had more time to maneuver. It's too bad the school seems to be the sole recipient of the media blame here, when the kid is more responsible.

 

In this situation, I am more likely to support Siena. There are important timing issues here. I'm glad we haven't had to deal much with this bad situation at UAlbany, but I hope the school and potential student-athletes take note of how to proceed when a kid wants to transfer.

[bob87]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/07/sports/n...gin&oref=slogin

 

The saga has even made the NY times. Obvoiusly Siena is not in the best light although it is not as bad as it could be in my opinion.

 

I respect Old Dogs opinion on timing however I don't see that as a major issue. Haven't kids transferred between semesters which is worse as far as basketball season goes but logical if you make the leap that the kids are students too. I don't see why he should have transferred in March(as some have said) when the school year ends in May. Maybe waiting until June is too much, maybe not and maybe it is not fair to assume Kojo is a real student.

 

Just my 2 cents.