Indiana Jonsing and the travel ban of doom

[KingDane]

Since this topic has seemed to have veered officially off-topic...I'll give in. I honestly think we should create an off-topic forum for stuff like this, but I'm not running the forum so whatever.

 

<morning rant>

 

You're missing the point. It will cost them dearly in the big run because of this law. The tickets will still be sold in Indiana for any F4 games etc. However, big businesses are pulling out of plans they had for expansion into Indiana, i.e Salesforce, and a slew of other companies.

 

It's a statement to hit them where it hurts the most - economic expansion, jobs, etc.

 

That is irrelevant. IMO, good riddance. There are many other companies who will move in if they haven't already (Chik-Fil-A, etc.).

 

How come, or rather since when is, diminishing the economic rights of people of one group okay as long as it's in the name of 'progression' of some other groups rights? If we're all about 'rights to the people', then how is this even an issue? It's asinine. It's not like the entire state of Indiana is telling the LGBT community to leave the state, they are just saying, "If one business doesn't want to sell to you, fine...walk down the block and hit up their competitor who is willing to sell to you." The only group this is hurting is the people who refuse to sell to LGBT's...it's hurting THEIR wallets. Religious people in Indiana aren't being violent towards LGBTs. They are simply not accepting their money. In a free enterprise system, how can ANYONE tell someone when and why to sell goods/services? You sell it to whoever you want to sell it to. But no, the LGBT's want everyone to know and scream from the mountain top that it's not fair. It's stupid. Society today, with all of it's 'political correctness', is really something...something ridiculous..

 

There was a family in Oregon a year or two ago who owned a bakery. They refused to make a wedding cake for an LGBT couple. After a battle in court, they were fined $150k and had to close the doors to their business. How on earth is that fair? There was probably a few other bakeries within a 20 mile radius that couple could have gone to. The LGBT community took away their source of income and means of supporting their family. Sure, just like "they can go get another job", LBGT's "can go to another bakery."

 

Ridiculous.

 

Clearly not the right forum for this - but I agree. If I own a luncheonette in Indiana I can ban Negroes from sitting at my counter. Regarding WB - he should be able to travel to Indiana to attend the games. However, my suggestion is that he comment one way or the other to clarify his decision. He is a coach, but also a teacher - his decision either way, is a teaching moment.

[uofalbany]

Since this topic has seemed to have veered officially off-topic...I'll give in. I honestly think we should create an off-topic forum for stuff like this, but I'm not running the forum so whatever.

 

<morning rant>

 

You're missing the point. It will cost them dearly in the big run because of this law. The tickets will still be sold in Indiana for any F4 games etc. However, big businesses are pulling out of plans they had for expansion into Indiana, i.e Salesforce, and a slew of other companies.

 

It's a statement to hit them where it hurts the most - economic expansion, jobs, etc.

 

That is irrelevant. IMO, good riddance. There are many other companies who will move in if they haven't already (Chik-Fil-A, etc.).

 

How come, or rather since when is, diminishing the economic/religious rights of people of one group okay as long as it's in the name of 'progression' of some other groups rights? If we're all about 'rights to the people', then how is this even an issue? It's asinine. It's not like the entire state of Indiana is telling the LGBT community to leave the state, they are just saying, "If one business doesn't want to sell to you, fine...walk down the block and hit up their competitor who is willing to sell to you." The only group this is hurting is the people who refuse to sell to LGBT's...it's hurting THEIR wallets. Religious people in Indiana aren't being violent towards LGBTs. They are simply not accepting their money. In a free enterprise system, how can ANYONE tell someone when and why to sell goods/services? You sell it to whoever you want to sell it to. But no, the LGBT's want everyone to know and scream from the mountain top that it's not fair. It's stupid. Society today, with all of it's 'political correctness', is really something...something ridiculous..

 

There was a family in Oregon a year or two ago who owned a bakery. They refused to make a wedding cake for an LGBT couple. After a battle in court, they were fined $150k and had to close the doors to their business. How on earth is that fair? There was probably a few other bakeries within a 20 mile radius that couple could have gone to. The LGBT community took away their source of income and means of supporting their family. Sure, just like "they can go get another job", LBGT's "can go to another bakery."

 

Ridiculous.

 

If I was Will Brown I'd pay my own way and go. Don't be bullied. It's a free country. Go if you want to go.

 

This. Free country goes both ways. Free to be Lesbian. Free to be of faith (in this case).

 

All of these schools (Villanova and Ollie) banning their staff from going to games, or all of these states banning their officials from going there for any reason...it's ridiculous. While I support the right of everyone to live as they feel is right, I do not support this type of PC backlash. People, organizations, states, etc. need to be able to say what they think and mean it. Instead of saying something, then having to offer 'fake' apologies to appease the activists or completely changing their policy against their thoughts due to pressure. That isn't right. I'm happy Indiana is standing firm.

 

</morning rant>

 

Anyway, someone should split this thread into another (new) forum...

 

Nice, thorough post IIko.

 

[madDOG]

Since this topic has seemed to have veered officially off-topic...I'll give in. I honestly think we should create an off-topic forum for stuff like this, but I'm not running the forum so whatever.

 

<morning rant>

 

You're missing the point. It will cost them dearly in the big run because of this law. The tickets will still be sold in Indiana for any F4 games etc. However, big businesses are pulling out of plans they had for expansion into Indiana, i.e Salesforce, and a slew of other companies.

 

It's a statement to hit them where it hurts the most - economic expansion, jobs, etc.

 

That is irrelevant. IMO, good riddance. There are many other companies who will move in if they haven't already (Chik-Fil-A, etc.).

 

How come, or rather since when is, diminishing the economic/religious rights of people of one group okay as long as it's in the name of 'progression' of some other groups rights? If we're all about 'rights to the people', then how is this even an issue? It's asinine. It's not like the entire state of Indiana is telling the LGBT community to leave the state, they are just saying, "If one business doesn't want to sell to you, fine...walk down the block and hit up their competitor who is willing to sell to you." The only group this is hurting is the people who refuse to sell to LGBT's...it's hurting THEIR wallets. Religious people in Indiana aren't being violent towards LGBTs. They are simply not accepting their money. In a free enterprise system, how can ANYONE tell someone when and why to sell goods/services? You sell it to whoever you want to sell it to. But no, the LGBT's want everyone to know and scream from the mountain top that it's not fair. It's stupid. Society today, with all of it's 'political correctness', is really something...something ridiculous..

 

There was a family in Oregon a year or two ago who owned a bakery. They refused to make a wedding cake for an LGBT couple. After a battle in court, they were fined $150k and had to close the doors to their business. How on earth is that fair? There was probably a few other bakeries within a 20 mile radius that couple could have gone to. The LGBT community took away their source of income and means of supporting their family. Sure, just like "they can go get another job", LBGT's "can go to another bakery."

 

Ridiculous.

Here's the thing, if you own a business that serves the public then you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate that public in which you serve. Simple as that really. If your religious views are such that you can't bake a cake for someone, then you probably shouldn't own a bakery in the first place.

 

No private business exists in a vacuum.

Edited April 2, 2015 by madDOG

[KingDane]

 

Since this topic has seemed to have veered officially off-topic...I'll give in. I honestly think we should create an off-topic forum for stuff like this, but I'm not running the forum so whatever.

 

<morning rant>

 

You're missing the point. It will cost them dearly in the big run because of this law. The tickets will still be sold in Indiana for any F4 games etc. However, big businesses are pulling out of plans they had for expansion into Indiana, i.e Salesforce, and a slew of other companies.

 

It's a statement to hit them where it hurts the most - economic expansion, jobs, etc.

 

That is irrelevant. IMO, good riddance. There are many other companies who will move in if they haven't already (Chik-Fil-A, etc.).

 

How come, or rather since when is, diminishing the economic/religious rights of people of one group okay as long as it's in the name of 'progression' of some other groups rights? If we're all about 'rights to the people', then how is this even an issue? It's asinine. It's not like the entire state of Indiana is telling the LGBT community to leave the state, they are just saying, "If one business doesn't want to sell to you, fine...walk down the block and hit up their competitor who is willing to sell to you." The only group this is hurting is the people who refuse to sell to LGBT's...it's hurting THEIR wallets. Religious people in Indiana aren't being violent towards LGBTs. They are simply not accepting their money. In a free enterprise system, how can ANYONE tell someone when and why to sell goods/services? You sell it to whoever you want to sell it to. But no, the LGBT's want everyone to know and scream from the mountain top that it's not fair. It's stupid. Society today, with all of it's 'political correctness', is really something...something ridiculous..

 

There was a family in Oregon a year or two ago who owned a bakery. They refused to make a wedding cake for an LGBT couple. After a battle in court, they were fined $150k and had to close the doors to their business. How on earth is that fair? There was probably a few other bakeries within a 20 mile radius that couple could have gone to. The LGBT community took away their source of income and means of supporting their family. Sure, just like "they can go get another job", LBGT's "can go to another bakery."

 

Ridiculous.

Here's the thing, if you own a business that serves the public then you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate that public in which you serve. Simple as that really. If your religious views are such that you can't bake a cake for someone, then you probably shouldn't own a bakery in the first place.

 

No private business exists in a vacuum.

 

 

I agree Dog. We have the right to practice our religion, but it does not trump community rights. This is exactly the argument that was used to keep Negroes out of businesses and at the back of the bus. Regardless of my personal feelings, I would hate to see a sign on any store that reads, 'homosexuals not allowed.' The State of Indiana kicked a hornets nest when it did not have to.

 

I think Will Brown's best course of action is to attend, but make a public statement that clarifies his position of intolerance to any and all discrimination.

[alum73]

If he went even if he paid his own way,

 

1. The governor would not be pleased. Near future funding you all clamor for....... not happening.

 

2. Will comes under fire from local and national media (the liberal ones)negating much of the favorable press we've just

gotten.

 

Attending those games is not that important. He'd be crazy to go.

[Eli]

EDIT: Nevermind...not worth it. Let's get back to Will Brown.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Ilko

[Clickclack]

If he went even if he paid his own way,

 

1. The governor would not be pleased. Near future funding you all clamor for....... not happening.

 

2. Will comes under fire from local and national media (the liberal ones)negating much of the favorable press we've just

gotten.

 

Attending those games is not that important. He'd be crazy to go.

 

Regardless of your stance on this issue...I tend to agree with this. This game isn't that big a deal...not enough to potentially draw ire of a often vengeful politician.

[Clickclack]

This thread has gotten WAY of topic...I doubt people are going to see eye to eye here.

[Eli]

This thread has gotten WAY of topic...I doubt people are going to see eye to eye here.

 

I know. Sorry folks...I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, just like to debate stuff...we can all agree to disagree.

[justdrastik1]

Once you allow for someone to discriminate on any one factor, you open a slippery slope to nearly every angle possible - discrimination on race, weight, education/"class" etc.

You're welcome to have your own opinions, but you cannot/should not be able to refuse service to someone based upon that. And if you don't want to abide by that, it's simple - don't open a business. Your opinion is free in America, but you re not free to act as how you would like. In your private life you can choose as to who you interact with, talk to etc. But from a business standpoint, you cannot discriminate. Period.

 

Using your Chik-fil-A example, management are big supporters of organizations that have beliefs that are drastically different from the LGBT community, but don't think for a second that they would ever refuse to accept the order from someone from that community. They recognize the difference and/or are not stupid enough to not take the $$ as well.

 

And there is zero percent chance that this helps Indiana at all financially speaking. No F100, or even F1000 company will open its doors or expand into Indiana BECAUSE of that cause.

[BestDaneSinceHamlet]

Please go read what Pat Haden has decided to do, then come back and speak on this issue.

[Clickclack]

Please go read what Pat Haden has decided to do, then come back and speak on this issue.

 

That's his prerogative...not sure how it should sway the debate in either direction.

[BestDaneSinceHamlet]

Once you allow for someone to discriminate on any one factor, you open a slippery slope to nearly every angle possible - discrimination on race, weight, education/"class" etc.

 

You're welcome to have your own opinions, but you cannot/should not be able to refuse service to someone based upon that. And if you don't want to abide by that, it's simple - don't open a business. Your opinion is free in America, but you re not free to act as how you would like. In your private life you can choose as to who you interact with, talk to etc. But from a business standpoint, you cannot discriminate. Period.

 

Using your Chik-fil-A example, management are big supporters of organizations that have beliefs that are drastically different from the LGBT community, but don't think for a second that they would ever refuse to accept the order from someone from that community. They recognize the difference and/or are not stupid enough to not take the $$ as well.

 

And there is zero percent chance that this helps Indiana at all financially speaking. No F100, or even F1000 company will open its doors or expand into Indiana BECAUSE of that cause.

+ 1000. Couldn't have said this better myself. The fact is, these religious freedom laws are being enacted directly as a counter to the gay rights movement. This isn't religious freedom defending itself. It's an offensive against what certain religious types believe is an affront to their lifestyle.

[Clickclack]

Once you allow for someone to discriminate on any one factor, you open a slippery slope to nearly every angle possible - discrimination on race, weight, education/"class" etc.

 

You're welcome to have your own opinions, but you cannot/should not be able to refuse service to someone based upon that. And if you don't want to abide by that, it's simple - don't open a business. Your opinion is free in America, but you re not free to act as how you would like. In your private life you can choose as to who you interact with, talk to etc. But from a business standpoint, you cannot discriminate. Period.

 

Using your Chik-fil-A example, management are big supporters of organizations that have beliefs that are drastically different from the LGBT community, but don't think for a second that they would ever refuse to accept the order from someone from that community. They recognize the difference and/or are not stupid enough to not take the $$ as well.

 

And there is zero percent chance that this helps Indiana at all financially speaking. No F100, or even F1000 company will open its doors or expand into Indiana BECAUSE of that cause.

 

No one is denying access to someone in the LGBT community walking in and buying bread or cake of the shelf from the said baker. This is the analogy you are trying to draw with Chick-Fil-A. Creating a custom cake or employing ones artistic talents in photographing a wedding or working an event like in the case of the farm (I believe) that would have actively placed the objecting party as an ACTIVE participant under the thread of being taken to court and shut down is reprehensible.

 

There are cases where simply put one group is so diametrically opposed to their counterpart that it's best to simply agree to disagree instead making everything into a huge political debate. There will come a time (if we aren't there yet) where the far right and even center people are simply going to have enough of this nonsense. Should an atheist demand that a christian baker bake them a cake that is offensive to Christians?

 

Going the other way, there are accounts of folks calling bakery shops in LA, asking that a baker bake them a cake that says nothing more than..."Celebrating traditional marriages"..granted it was just a test to see how many bakers would bake a cake like that. How do you think that went in LA? I suspect the left has no problem denying that request...I can link if you'd like. I mean, it's just business, right?

Edited April 2, 2015 by Clickclack

[UAalum72]

Baking a cake or catering a reception is not taking part in a wedding. The bakery should have baked a cake and given the couple a choice of decorations and phrases that they were comfortable putting on the cake. What, they're so "Christian" they can't wish someone well?