Is President Hall the right Choice for Atthletics?

[danefan]

oh yeah. I forgot about the Key Atrium. Maybe its a coincidence but I think the RACC atrium and the Science Library are two of the nicest locations on campus.

[McFan]

Brief article on Hall hosting a Town Hall in the Business Review (online version).

 

http://albany.bizjournals.com/albany/stori...tml?jst=b_ln_hl

[DaneFan2k3]

I agreed with everything Dane96 wrote, except the following:

 

We can be a Syracuse, a UNC, a U Maryland.

 

These are schools #52 (tied), #29, and #56 (tied with Boston U.) in the vaunted (or maligned, take your pick) US News rankings.

 

Also, all three of those schools have national basketball championships in the past five years, regularly produce NBA players (and national champions/pros in other sports). I can safely say that this will never occur at UAlbany, at least not while I'm alive.

 

But I understand the point you were trying to make, 96: that UA can rise from its 150th ranking to the point where it has respected athletic teams that drive people to want to go to these schools/think these are elite schools, despite the fact that they are not Ivy League. I think those ARE good academic schools, but they also have athletic teams that make them seem EVEN better than they actually are.

 

So for example, people who know Syracuse's athletic prowess and don't know academics might rate Syracuse as one of the top 25 schools, when its actually 52, and ditto down the line. So even if UA remained at 150 in those rankings, with a good athletic program that was a regional power people might consider us among the top 100 or so schools, i.e. the "Top Tier" just based on our athletic reputation.

 

I agree.

 

--------------

 

In my opinion, whoever stated that Hall being student-centered is going to ignore athletics: you are right on. If the student body doesn't care about athletics, about going to athletic events, then he is going to ignore them as well. He is going to put the money where the most mouths are.

 

The solution in my opinion is multi-pronged.

 

First off, the athletics department has to make a major philosophical choice to recruit better student-athletes who achieve high marks in the classroom. I know there are some, but they have to make it a point to have as many as humanly possible on each team. It may not always be possible, but when it is we have to press hard for the top scholars.

 

Secondly, the department needs to publicize these academic achievements almost as much as the athletic achievements. This is the way to catch the attention of the academic people who have the President's ear. When we are touting student-athletes who break 3-point shooting records and then participate in Robot seminars, those are the types of stories he is going to pay attention to. He is not going to care if someone breaks a scoring record or jumping record, whatever the case may be, if the person is consistently on the academic fence.

 

There should be a page for academic achievements, an honor roll, if you will. And we should promote it as often as we can.

 

Third, the department needs to get back into the recreation side of things more. They are treating it like an athletics department first, second and third, and then recreation fifth or sixth. The general student population is not going to come by the thousands to watch basketball games for quite some time.

 

However, if we approach the President about fixing up the recreational facilities or building new athletic facilities under the guise of handing some of the old facilities over to recreation, then he is going to listen because it benefits a larger number of students. If building a new football stadium will free up space in the PE building for dance classes, aerobics, karate, racquetball, swimming, ROTC, extended hours, etc., then he will be more approachable about the subject.

 

Fourth, the Little Dane Club needs to be a top priority, so that in a few years the pre-teens will get into high school and remember that when they were 8-13 years old they had a friend on the basketball/lacrosse/football team that wrote them an e-mail once in a while or signed an autograph at a game. They will remember, and will look at UA a little harder. Some parents and former Little Danes may even make comments to the higher-ups about the great time they had at a UA game because of such-and-such a coach. All of this helps.

 

It also helps in the branding of the school. 90% of the general population doesn't know that Duke is the 5th-rated academic university on the list in part because its Executive MBA programs is No. 3 in Financial Times, No. 4 in U.S. News & World Report, No. 4 in BusinessWeek.

 

What DO they know about Duke? They are a basketball power and they have Coach K.

 

They know when they were little kids or young adults they watched Laettner kill Kentucky.

 

They SHOULD know that when they were little kids they went to UA games with their parents and got a Will Brand or Jamar Wilson autograph afterward and got a photo taken with him.

 

I don't think they do.

 

And lastly, and this is the most radical idea of all and you can start the hate mail now, the University may need to consider paring down its athletic offerings to the ones that will generate the most success, most academic success, will achieve the highest cost-savings, will generate the most publicity, and will provide the highest entertainment value for the community and school.

 

I understand this wouldn't be a popular decision, but 19 sports is a lot for the type of budget UA has and is going to have for the forseeable future. By elminating even two sports, one male and one female, you could realize a cost savings of around $400,000 in my estimation. That is 10% of what has been talked about on this board as the total athletics budget. Rather than slashing it, though, you would divert the funds into the other 17 sports, for an average annual increase of $23,500 ... or you could divert that 400,000 annually into a facility improvement fund. In ten years of diverting the money you would have a $4,000,000 facility or contribution to a facility.

 

Again that is radical. And no, I don't have suggestions for which programs should go, if any. But it could make sense in the grand plan. I would much rather have 15-17 sports where UA is a regional and national contender than be average to regional in 19 sports.

Edited May 12, 2005 by DaneFan2k3

[reeder]

Just received the UA newsletter and read the text of Hall's faculty address. It's pretty impressive. I am not very close to the SUNY environment so it was enlightening.

 

I copied some of the text and attached a link.

 

http://www.albany.edu/president/speeches/2...ing_speech.html

 

 

 

Since I stepped off my Utah space ship and landed here, a series of paradoxes of place and purpose have become apparent. Let me share with you a few of them, since they provide an entering wedge in understanding our University.

 

 

It is a place that prides itself on academic success and houses a chapter of Phi Beta Kappa, but ranks as the nation's number one party school.

A place that dramatically expresses the International Style of architecture, but is the least internationalized of the SUNY research centers.

A place that has made a bold step forward in science, but has a half-empty Life Sciences Building with no clear linkage to a similar enterprise on the East Campus.

A place that avows its commitment to undergraduate education, but where students struggle to find the courses they need to meet the general education requirements.

A place that depends on transfer students for its economic life blood, but leaves them to fend largely for themselves.

A place that has pronounced its determination to become one of the top 30 public universities in the nation, but languishes in the third tier of US News and World Report rankings.

A place that claims academic excellence, but offers its best prepared students an episodic menu of honors programming, balks at the prospect of its largest college addressing honors education, and leaves its best students untutored in how to compete for the most prestigious national scholarships and fellowships.

A place that pursued a half-billion dollar campaign, but did so with an existing endowment of less than $16 million.

A place with significant diversity in its student population, but with few administrators of color and even fewer connections to the neighborhoods that lend color to its community.

A place that sits in a city, but that has no urban strategy.

A place that proposes to inform the world about how to plan, but has no signage to direct its visitors across the podium, through its three campuses, and in and out of its buildings.

A place that has increased its share of Group One students, but has lost enrollment and with it the revenue necessary to finance its ambitions.

A place that depends on shared governance, but one in which trust has been lost in the administration and with it a consensus on the shared values so necessary to govern.

A place with an alumni board begging to make a difference, and an alumni giving rate well below the national average.

A place with a University Council determined to make a difference, but whose existence seems to make no difference at all.

A place with the nation's second best criminal justice program, but where students in its downtown neighborhood talk casually with the president about gun fire, knifings, drugs, and break-ins,

where a student writes to the president to explain that her apartment was broken into five times in one year,

where one parent is so concerned about the safety of her daughter that she suggests we contact Curtis Sliwa and the Guardian Angels to restore order,

and where freshmen, underage drinkers, shake the president's hand on the street corner then duck for cover when he walks into a bar.

Edited May 12, 2005 by reeder

[UAalum72]

And lastly, and this is the most radical idea of all and you can start the hate mail now, the University may need to consider paring down its athletic offerings to the ones that will generate the most success, most academic success, will achieve the highest cost-savings, will generate the most publicity, and will provide the highest entertainment value for the community and school. 

 

Again that is radical.  And no, I don't have suggestions for which programs should go, if any.  But it could make sense in the grand plan.  I would much rather have 15-17 sports where UA is a regional and national contender than be average to regional in 19 sports.

Unless you're planning on dropping football, Title IX will keep you from dropping any women's sports, and those are the only ones where we don't excel - haven't we made the playoffs in every AEast men's sport this year? And Division I requires a minimum of 14 sports, at least 7 for each gender. Remember, of the nineteen sports, six are running/track: outdoor, indoor, and x-c.

[statefan]

I have always presumed that if we go to scholarship football, we would have to turn at least two, and probably three of baseball, soccer, lacrosse and track & field into non-scholarship teams. I have deleted the remainder of my original post as, after doing a little research, I found it to be factually incorrect and I apologize if I misled anyone.

Edited May 13, 2005 by statefan

[Dane96]

Statefan,

 

Knowing your affiliation with UMD, I think your numbers may be off. I was definately offered a partial to UMD for baseball before shattering my leg, with about 6 more grand coming from a Presidential Honors Scholly. I had a good friend's brother just finish up there 4 years ago and he was on a full boat for baseball. Is this something very new?

Edited May 13, 2005 by Dane96

[UAalum72]

Division I-A schools must give a MINIMUM of 200 scholarships. With 85 for football and 13 for basketball, a school would have to go beyond the min to fund other men's sports (if the women get half of all schollies). But the limit for most non-revenue sports is ten to twelve per team, so all the other sports together would have fewer than football.

 

As a I-AA, the burden is a lot less even if you're near the 63 limit for FB. I'm not sure if there's a minimum for I-AA or I-AAA.

[statefan]

Dane 96 - I apologize. Just did a little research and Maryland does fund 7.6 baseball scholarships. My mistake

Edited May 13, 2005 by statefan

[statefan]

I was reading this gender equity report:

 

http://www.albany.edu/ncaa/self_study/equity.html

 

Is there a more recent one to view?

[DaneFan2k3]

Unless you're planning on dropping football, Title IX will keep you from dropping any women's sports

 

If you drop one men's and one women's sport, and they were funded relatively equally in terms of scholarships, then your balance between men's and women's will not be altered. You can't just drop a women's sport, that is why I said one men's and one women's.

 

If you go to scholarship football, as some people on this board would like, prepare for all men's sports aside from football and the basketballs to be radically underfunded OR the budget to swell beyond belief. I have to think it's the former ... once you throw on all those football scholarships, to balance them out you're going to have to pump up the women's funding to near-max levels ... and that money has to come from somewhere.

 

haven't we made the playoffs in every AEast men's sport this year?

 

Again, this was part of my point though: are you happy making the AE tournament in each sport, maybe having a chance for an automatic bid and nothing else? How many of them went on to NCAA National Competition? I would much prefer to lop off one or two men's sports, and one or two women's sports, and use the saved money to make the remaining sports on each side at LEAST regional contenders, if not national-calibur.

Edited May 13, 2005 by DaneFan2k3

[UAalum72]

As long as we're in the America East we're not going to be a regional/national power, the resulting strength of schedule will take care of that. How many at-large bids did AE teams get in total this year in all sports? especially outside football and hockey, which aren't AE sports anyway. I just don't see how the limited dollars gained by dropping two sports is going to suddenly propel another sport to a major level, if that sport already has nearly the max schollies. It would take an upgrade to facilities (complete the master plan) to elevate the entire program; two minor sports won't make that much difference.

[DaneFan2k3]

The question then becomes, how close are those sports to max scholarships? I think you'd be surprised how far away from the NCAA limit some sports are.

[UAalum72]

No, I wouldn't, unless the number we've given has fallen in the last two years. When the Campaign for Albany kicked off, there was a folder given to the attendees that showed the then-current scholarship levels and goals for each sport. About half the teams were at or near max, the rest more than half.

 

They dropped JV football and JV basketball in the early 90's, then dropped an excellent wrestling team, men's tennis, and men's and women's swimming ten years ago. I didn't see any jump in quality in the sports that were left, other than the entire program moving to higher divisions.

[GODANESGO]

n/m