Letters to the TU

[Dane Pound]

A couple of letters from Siena fans in today's paper reminding us Siena is the "gold standard" of Capital District hoops. Is "gold standard" better than "crown jewel?"

Siena still area's gold standard in basketball

Saints' epic upset dwarfs Danes' double-digit defeat

[olddog71]

One of the criticisms that Siena has made of our program is our league affiliation. Some of them have "deign"-ed to call our conference America "L"east. This tactic is similar to the process of guilt by association.

 

I notice that none of the Siena fans who have failed to appreciate our growth - and most Siena fans seem to give us credit and respect - have mentioned any statistics of our opponents. I just looked up what kind of opponents each local team has played this year. My statistics come from today's Sagarin ratings.

 

Siena did not play one single team in today's Top Ten this year. By contrast, UAlbany played three of them - Florida, UCLA, and UConn - and played quite competitively in each of those games.

 

I looked farther in the standings. Siena also did not play any team in the next 20, in other words, Siena did not play a single team in the top 30. Clearly, our game against UConn was no fluke! This evidence is clearly contrary to those Siena fans who continue to bash our achievements this year.

 

This post is not to bash the past accomplishments of Siena's program. Siena deserves a great deal of praise for its performance, especially its victories in past tournaments. But that doesn't give Siena fans the opportunity to bash our program.

 

Furthermore, I have noticed that the Sagarin ratings seem not to be upgraded after the NCAA tournament games. UAlbany has not moved an inch in the ratings despite our early season games against top tournament survivors nor our performance recently against UConn. I would think that our real current RPI would have increased at least a couple spots since the NCAA tournament began.

 

What do you posters think?

Edited April 2, 2006 by olddog71

[KingDane]

I think Mr. Brian Hughes and Mr. Craig Allen sound just like people tend to sound when they feel it slipping away. Next ... they won't want to play Albany anymore. "what do we have to gain?" "We were here first".

 

Go back to the D1 Siena v D111 Albany game in 1977 - the 'final meeting' - Albany whipped their 'big-time' tails, at Siena's own rats nest.

 

Crybabies. They always were.

[alumni '92']

great fact-checking olddog71 ... few on their side expected the gap to close so quickly ... the potential for UA ... so many students, alumni, etc. who have yet to venture out, but they will ... we are on track ...

"The Siena faithful are still writing "Letters to the Editor" because a UA Fan wrote about UA's strong showing in the NCAAs this year ... If they were as secure about their dominance of DI basketball in the region as they were three or four years ago - things like that wouldn't bother them ... All of a sudden everything a Dane's fan says must be rebutted or they feel they will lose a larger share of their strength or popularity in the region ... It sure is fun watching them squirm.

It's so much fun watching them over react to every comment. The Crown Jewel of the MAAC is edgy." - Patch

"siena still area's gold standard in basketball" ... funny stuff ... great laughs ... oh the insecurity ... i must admit, i believe their win over stanford was more significant than our giving UCONN a run for their money, but to have to respond in the manner Brian Hughes and Craig Allen did, does as KingDane stated, "sound just like people tend to sound when they feel it slipping away" ...

[UAalum72]

Today's letters remind me of Yanker fans' letters after Red Sox fans said the more recent world champion should get more coverage. But I digress..

 

Aints fans always go to the RPI for the ratings - AE is 27th in RPI, 28th in Sagarin, and 25th in Pomeroy - except for individual teams, where Albany is 119 and $iena 124.

 

RPI is for seeding NCAA teams, so it isn't updated after the regular season. Sagarin and Pomeroy continue until the championships.

 

If people have forgotten the importance of the Stanford game (which I'd rate behind RPI's two NCAA hockey championships) it's because today's college freshmen were in diapers then, and everybody knows the attention span of America today.

[B9j2j6s]

You know what Siena fans have the right to complain about the idea that our UCONN loss was superior to that of whenever Siena beat Stanford to make it to the sweet 16. Because to put it simply a defeat is a defeat. However I have to say that BASKETBALL has changed alot since the 70's and I wonder how well that Siena team would do now adays against the Stanford or UConn of today. Siena fans know what they had but since there glory days they have what made it three times to the dance over almost 30 years.

 

I think the truth is Siena is finally realizing that the Sleeping Giant Dog has finally come out of its sleep. And they are scared and they should be, with our alumni, student support etc, I think if I was in there situation I would be to.

[olddog71]

Siena fans have every reason to remember the Stanford game. It was a great victory for them and their program. It doesn't mean, however, that it has to be a great victory for everybody, and it doesn't mean that the victories UAlbany fans have in their memories should be less valid.

 

For me, our first entry into the magical world of the NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament has to be one of the greatest memories I have of Great Danes basketball. For us, it is great because it took our program only 7 years to make it. For us, it is great because we were competing for only 65 spots in a field of approximately 334 teams in the country.

 

By the way, does anyone know how many D I teams there were in the country 17 years ago? I know that in recent years approximately 4-8 new D I teams come into existence.

 

As far as the "gold-standard" program of the Capital District is concerned, I would hardly call records of 6-24 and 15-13 in the last two years for an already-established program such a model to emulate. And I'm quite sure that you will have Siena defenders blaming it all on Lanier, at the same time some of their fans won't give us any slack for our poor record in the early Division I days.

 

KingDane, you're correct when you call a lot of their fans big whiners. Compare the comments pasted on the respective boards when we were going through our 5-23 record the year before they went 6-24.

 

I'm happy for the progress they've made under their new coach, but I have a right to be very proud of the greater progress our program has made in the last few years.

[Clickclack]

Siena fans have every reason to remember the Stanford game. It was a great victory for them and their program. It doesn't mean, however, that it has to be a great victory for everybody, and it doesn't mean that the victories UAlbany fans have in their memories should be less valid.

 

For me, our first entry into the magical world of the NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament has to be one of the greatest memories I have of Great Danes basketball. For us, it is great because it took our program only 7 years to make it. For us, it is great because we were competing for only 65 spots in a field of approximately 334 teams in the country.

 

By the way, does anyone know how many D I teams there were in the country 17 years ago? I know that in recent years approximately 4-8 new D I teams come into existence.

 

As far as the "gold-standard" program of the Capital District is concerned, I would hardly call records of 6-24 and 15-13 in the last two years for an already-established program such a model to emulate. And I'm quite sure that you will have Siena defenders blaming it all on Lanier, at the same time some of their fans won't give us any slack for our poor record in the early Division I days.

 

KingDane, you're correct when you call a lot of their fans big whiners. Compare the comments pasted on the respective boards when we were going through our 5-23 record the year before they went 6-24.

 

I'm happy for the progress they've made under their new coach, but I have a right to be very proud of the greater progress our program has made in the last few years.

13724[/snapback]

 

Guys,

 

I’ve had numerous arguments with Siena fans on their board, as much as I love UA, their win over Stanford was more significant then our loss to UCONN. Any one who doesn’t see it that way has to be a major homer. Any team that makes it out of the first round of the NCAA especially after being a huge underdog has to be a significant accomplishment. With that being said, I agree that there are allot of whiner on the Siena side. As far as the local college hoops scene they are still the top dog. The gap might be closing but they are still a more accomplished team then we are, after all we haven’t been around D1 long enough. We need to keep this season in perspective; if we go out and have this level of success consistently and more importantly beat them at the Pepsi then we will rise to their level on the local scene. If you don’t think they are still the top program around then why do we UA fans or allot of us at least constantly compare ourselves to them.

[alumni '92']

You know what Siena fans have the right to complain about the idea that our UCONN loss was superior to that of whenever Siena beat Stanford to make it to the sweet 16. Because to put it simply a defeat is a defeat. However I have to say that BASKETBALL has changed alot since the 70's and I wonder how well that Siena team would do now adays against the Stanford or UConn of today. - B9j2j6s

just so the siena folks on this board don't accuse of us of reporting on the facts incorrectly ... 1989 siena beats Stanford ... no sweet 16 ... three trips to the dance since upgrading to DI in 1976 ... we've got one since 1999-2000 ... extrapolate ... draw your own conclusions on "success"

[Dane96]

Siena fans have every reason to remember the Stanford game. It was a great victory for them and their program. It doesn't mean, however, that it has to be a great victory for everybody, and it doesn't mean that the victories UAlbany fans have in their memories should be less valid.

 

For me, our first entry into the magical world of the NCAA Division I men's basketball tournament has to be one of the greatest memories I have of Great Danes basketball. For us, it is great because it took our program only 7 years to make it. For us, it is great because we were competing for only 65 spots in a field of approximately 334 teams in the country.

 

By the way, does anyone know how many D I teams there were in the country 17 years ago? I know that in recent years approximately 4-8 new D I teams come into existence.

 

As far as the "gold-standard" program of the Capital District is concerned, I would hardly call records of 6-24 and 15-13 in the last two years for an already-established program such a model to emulate. And I'm quite sure that you will have Siena defenders blaming it all on Lanier, at the same time some of their fans won't give us any slack for our poor record in the early Division I days.

 

KingDane, you're correct when you call a lot of their fans big whiners. Compare the comments pasted on the respective boards when we were going through our 5-23 record the year before they went 6-24.

 

I'm happy for the progress they've made under their new coach, but I have a right to be very proud of the greater progress our program has made in the last few years.

13724[/snapback]

 

Guys,

 

I’ve had numerous arguments with Siena fans on their board, as much as I love UA, their win over Stanford was more significant then our loss to UCONN. Any one who doesn’t see it that way has to be a major homer. Any team that makes it out of the first round of the NCAA especially after being a huge underdog has to be a significant accomplishment. With that being said, I agree that there are allot of whiner on the Siena side. As far as the local college hoops scene they are still the top dog. The gap might be closing but they are still a more accomplished team then we are, after all we haven’t been around D1 long enough. We need to keep this season in perspective; if we go out and have this level of success consistently and more importantly beat them at the Pepsi then we will rise to their level on the local scene. If you don’t think they are still the top program around then why do we UA fans or allot of us at least constantly compare ourselves to them.

13728[/snapback]

 

 

WE DONT COMPARE OURSELVES TO THEM...Hang around a bit longer and you will see the reasons for the SIENA faithful's mindset.

[Patch]

bosiydid - There will always be fans who want to compare greatest accomplishments and might lose perspective. Siena has "had" good/ outstanding seasons and successes in the past but we must live in the present.......

 

Lets look at the immediate present the last two full seasons.

 

Siena 2004/05 RPI 297 6-24 overall 4-14 in MAAC play

2005/06 RPI 125 15-13 overall 10-8 in MAAC play

 

Last two years avg. RPI 211, 21-37 overall, 14-22 in MAAC play

 

Remember according to the RPI the MAAC was a tougher league this year, last year the AE was rated higher then the MAAC. Also remember Siena is the self proclaimed "Crown Jewel of the MAAC" or the "Gold Standard"

 

UA 2004/05 RPI 195 13-15 overall 9-9 in AE play

2005/06 RPI 119 21-11 overall 13-3 in AE play

 

Last two years avg. RPI 157, 34-26 overall, 22-12 in AE play

 

These are the present facts, whatever plays out in the future so be it, but in the last two seasons the Great Danes have been the most productive of the two teams end of story.

 

Over the last two seasons which Hoop program has been the soundest.

[Big D]

Admittedly, Siena's win over Stanford 17 years ago was a bigger accomplishment, because a win is a win. I think Siena was a 14 seed that year. Stanford was a "soft 3 seed, and Siena's very quick and talented point guard, Marc Brown, played the game of his life.

 

That said, the Siena-Stanford game did not captivate the national audience the way the Alb-UConn game did. The Siena game was played during the afternoon, in front of a partially filled arena in sleepy Greensboro NC. and had relatively few TV viewers outside the home markets. On the contrary, the UA- UConn game was in prime time, in a big city, on a Friday night, on St. Patrick's Day. This gave the game a unique energy, with large parts of the country feeling like they were watching a college hoop miracle unfold. Yes, Siena's win was a greater accomplishment, but watching 16 seed UA take a double digit lead against UConn was more compelling to the average hoop fan.

[olddog71]

Patch makes very good points about the current status of both programs.

 

Many old-time UAlbany fans will also dispute Siena's claim to be the "gold standard" of the Capital District that goes back decades and decades.

 

Back in the Sauers years, when both teams were on the level playing field of Dvision III, the other fans were making that claim then. But back then the record told another story. I think the great number of games played between the two teams when Sauers was coach resulted in about an even win-loss record for both teams. This fact certainly does not demonstrate Capital District dominance for either team back then. Back then, as now, the intensity in the games between the two teams was very high, and back then Albany fans had to put up with a certain Siena arrogance that continues today.

 

Certainly after Siena went Division I, it has a right to claim it was the better team, but my point is that neither team has the right to say it has been the undisputed for the entire duration of this rivalry.

 

For some of you newer fans, perhaps you can now understand the roots of the rivalry as well as the animosity that exists among the older UAlbany fans for our crosstown rivalry.

 

My hope for the future is that somebody big will harness the great "energy" between the two teams and promote this rivalry even more. I think both programs will continue to show basic progress in the next few years which will make the annual game between us an event to show far beyond our region.

[Clickclack]

bosiydid - There will always be fans who want to compare greatest accomplishments and might lose perspective. Siena has "had" good/ outstanding seasons and successes in the past but we must live in the present.......

 

Lets look at the immediate present the last two full seasons.

 

Siena 2004/05 RPI 297  6-24 overall  4-14 in MAAC play

        2005/06 RPI 125 15-13 overall 10-8 in MAAC play

 

        Last two years avg. RPI 211, 21-37 overall,  14-22 in MAAC play

 

        Remember according to the RPI the MAAC was a tougher league this year,  last year the AE was rated higher then the MAAC. Also remember Siena is the self proclaimed "Crown Jewel of the MAAC" or the "Gold Standard"

 

UA    2004/05  RPI 195  13-15 overall 9-9 in AE play

        2005/06  RPI 119  21-11 overall 13-3 in AE play

 

        Last two years avg. RPI 157, 34-26 overall, 22-12 in AE play

 

These are the present facts, whatever plays out in the future so be it, but in the last two seasons the Great Danes have been the most productive of the two teams end of story.

 

Over the last two seasons which Hoop program has been the soundest.

13732[/snapback]

 

Patch,

 

No question that the last two season have been relatively good/great for UA and terrible/surprisingly good for Siena. But take that RPI and blow it out to 7 season or even 5. The picture changes dramatically. Hence my point that we need to be better then them consistently in order to rise to the top on the local hoops scene. I can’t believe that I’m defending Siena, and I’m the guy who wants to crush them when we play them.

[olddog71]

bosiydid,

 

Be careful about defending Siena too much. I'm not talking about censorship here, but don't compare apples with oranges.

 

You simply cannot compare our two records over the last 7 years, or 11 years, or whatever, unless you go back 25 years or more.

 

When UAlbany first upgraded to Division II, it had its first losing year under Sauers. Did he suddenly become dumb? I don't think so. He was now competing against much better teams that had much better exposure to better recruits, better financing, better assistants, etc.

 

But immediately that year I noticed that we already had a better athlete on the court than the previous year, even though we were losing more games.

 

Same thing happened when we went D I. Better athletes, worse record.

 

You just simply cannot put UAlbany and Siena against each other the first five years of the modern era.

 

Beginning two years ago, the playing field became much more even.