LCC Game 2007

[UA_MA_2000]

It's a big game, a fun game but no longer the biggest game of the year by a pretty wide margin. I don't really see that as the issue though.

 

If the revenue is the same (not really my department) and I can get halfway decent seats (my department) than it's a big step in the right direction. My problem with the game has been other than the tournament game in Columbus it's been my most expensive road game ticket and my worst road game seat. Those two things don't make for a good combination.

 

I waited for weeks and weeks to buy my Siena vs. UAlbany ticket last October. They went on sale the morning of October 15. Since I work downtown, I walked over to the then Pepsi Arena to buy my ticket in person the moment they went on sale, and the best seats that I could obtain were lower level, towards the corner of the UAlbany bench. It was about 8 rows up, section 102 or 103, but I think it was 102. What the heck? I couldn't even get seats in the section behind the UAlbany bench! Not to mention that I was surrounded by Siena fans. I believe section 104 is the section behind the UAlbany bench.

 

The reason I went through the then Pepsi Arena's ticket office is because I knew that the tickets that UAlbany had been given were for even worse seats. The more I think about Siena and the TUC, the more angry I get.

 

If things continue as they have been with LCC the annual UA vs. LCC game, then I'm just going to have to look forward to wearing my purple UAlbany t-shirt or hoops jersey for the next LCC game with, in gold lettering, "M. Luther" on the back for the name and the number 95. Ouch, babe.

[bob87]

Siena avg 6000 fans a game not 5000( and next season with Siena fantastic home schedule look for that number to approach 7000 a game)

 

Siena charges more for several games a season.. ( Marist, Manhattan and next season Stanford and St Joe’) So it’s not only the Albany game with a premium charge on it

 

Siena pays for cost of the arena, ticket takers.. clean up afterward etc.

 

As for what Siena gets…. What is it to you?… Siena will sell close to 17,000 tickets for Stanford and St Joe’s. It’s not like Siena needs Albany to get a big crowd…. That would be like me saying Albany gets 3000 fans at 8 bucks a pop for a regular season home game for revenue of 24K minus costs… Albany probably nets 20K… now normally you play home and home so that works out to 10K for the home game… instead your getting guaranteed money every year for the Siena game. If you get 3000 tickets to a Siena game @ 18 bucks a pop for 54K with no cost… that 250% better than you get for a typical home game… some pretty serious money for a low major team with a 900K basketball budget, so don’t talk like Albany isn’t getting more revenue than a typical home game And if you are correct that Albany only gets 1500 tickets I have no problem with Siena upping Albany’s ticket allotment. In fact I have no problem with allot of you guys suggestions minus a few… Siena has the larger avg attendance ( double that of Albany’s) no way we spilt the revenue. Since Siena has a bigger fan base no way you get one whole side of the arena, although I do think Siena can do a better job of getting Albany better seats in the lower bowl , if that aint good enough forget about it… we have nothing to prove since we have “owned" Albany since the series resumed.. What is it 5-1? So Bob I can see your frustration

 

 

 

Tony

 

Siena averaged 5,415 fans this season not counting the Albany game in which many of our fans were forced to buy tickets from Siena or not go. The Albany game had 11271. That is more than double your average attendance. As far as your prediction for 07-08 LCC attendance , we shall see if that is accurate or is an MTS like prediction. Maybe you can make 4 more different predictions on that one like you did on LCC win total last season. Frankly to receive $27,000 a year(1500 tickets) is a drop in the bucket when you are provide a local competitor an extra $150,000 a year. I really don't care what your expenses are for renting the arena and as far as Albany I may be in the minority but I think the game should be dropped unless UA gets a fair share of the receipts. Be it 1/3, 2/5, 1/2 , whatever . Certainly not the 15% or so it currently is. As far as I know every other team on our schedule last season provided either a home and home series(obvoiusly over more than 1 season) or a guarantee superior to the $27,000 that LCC provides.

Now, with that being said, I will take subsiding Siena's athletic department if Coach Brown or Dr McElroy said that playing this game will give UA a better chance of making the NCAA tournament than playing whatever the alternative game would be. After all, Toni we all know what the March "score" is. Albany back to back NCAA's. Siena still talking about December games in March (now April) in the same way Tampa Devil Ray fans can talk about their big May wins over the yankees while the yankees are playing in October! (A couple of seasons ago Tampa won something like 11 or 12 of the head to head games with the yankees. Tampa still finished in last and the yankees still made the playoffs.)

[UA_MA_2000]

The numbers speak for themselves. The UAlbany game more than doubles the attendance for a Siena home game. We account for those extra people. Accordingly, we should earn half the revenue. Siena has used and cheated us long enough. Besides, Siena damn near considers us a "money game" for them anyway. So pay up! Absent equal treatment, I (for whatever my view is worth) say no game.

 

There are plenty of other teams that, as a fan, I would love to see us play! For example, I would love to see UAlbany play other geographically close teams: Marist (or a different New-York-State-based MAAC team), Buffalo, UMASS, Columbia (along with other Ivies; perhaps Yale (2.5 hours away) and Cornell (who we do play)), St. John's, Syracuse, Central Conn. State (or any of the other schools from the Northeast Conference), Colgate, Army (how fun would a road game at West Point be?!), Rhode Island (another flagship school in the northeast that I wish was in the America East Conference), Fordham, and so on! There are alumni of the schools that I just mentioned and interested UAlbany fans (who may have had friends or relatives attend these schools) in this area who would enjoy games against these opponents.

 

For me, I would enjoy a Buffalo vs. UAlbany home and home series much more than Siena vs. Albany. Yes, I went to Buffalo (but I am a UA fan far more than a UB fan), but it's also the one SUNY school that the three America East SUNY schools don't see that often. I would also love to see UMASS vs. UAlbany and Marist vs. UAlbany because those are very close schools to us [unfortunately, UMASS and Rhode Island are not in the America East, though I wish they were for profile reasons (other northeastern flagship state schools) while dropping Hartford (just neither a profile, nor competitve, fit) to the MAAC, A-10, or Northeast Conference].

 

Consider the following map of Division I basketball programs (URL below). Navigate to that website and examine how many schools UAlbany could play that are nearby and that would generate plenty of interest within our fan base. The schools I mentioned are just some examples. There are lots of mid-major schools within 2-3 hours driving time that are from conferences stronger than the MAAC, that would be reasonable opponents for us, and that would be potential wins for us. The map below is for 2004-2005, but it should be, for the most part, accurate (schools don't just move to a different city). Some schools, like NJIT, might not be on there yet.

 

http://www.medary.com/staticpages/index.ph...050811151846815

 

Edit: Another reason that I'd be okay with dropping the Siena game if need be is because it doesn't help us at all in terms of national exposure or increasing our out-of-state student applications.

[OrangeDane]

Well now...this is an interesting topic...first...everyone on the UAlbany Administrative end knows they got screwed on the original deal with Siena and based upon what I have heard they are intent on ensuring that its just not happening when this contract renews...

 

TUC is operated by Albany County not the City...we provided Siena with its biggest draw last year..and despite that Siena guy's ridiculous estimates of 17k to see them lose to Stanford and St Joes...I today predict that we will do it again next year..sorry Siena backers you'll get a nice crowd for those other games but in neither instance will it go over 5 digits attendance wise, while these programs have some rep they don't push enough buttons to draw tons of casual fans...the TUC is silly venue for Siena on a season long basis and the people in the know at Siena (its board, its AD and its new Prez...) recognize this fact, that's why they are considering building a new 6-7 k arena across the street from their campus on the site of the current Troop G HQ's.....that said both schools benefit from the UA Siena game at TUC and both schools can benefit from OCCASIONAL APPEARANCES (say twice a year or so) at the TUC....as we become the more significant draw we will need go down there to continue to grow the program I think...but on an isolated basis...my solution to the UA Siena game---

 

Its not a home game for either school..let TU or Price Chopper or someone "neutral' (eg. not SEFCU or Rose and Keirnan) sponsor that game....equal revenue shares to both schools and profits to a local charity or perhaps Coaches v Cancer....and prices should be kept affordable.... $20 bucks is ridiculous....(more like $40 after you buy food and pay "admission" for your car...)

 

The TUC management (Belber - I hope you read this...) should look to create two doubleheaders a year featuring both schools....with either us or Siena playing the "under card" game against a league opponent with the other school playing the feature game against a credible fan-attactive opponent...then....a few weeks later "flip" it and have the school playing the under card playing the feature game and vice versa... Now if you want to get 17000 basketball fans in the TUC that's how you'd do it!!! ' Imagine Siena playing some lower echelon MAAC team at 630 or 7 and UA playing UMass or Providence at 9...then a couple of week later UA plays Stony Brook at 7 and Siena plays a major at 9...

I recognize that there are scheduling issues for both schools and deals that need to be made to attract topflight teams but as an Albany County taxpayer who sees some of his property taxes used to pay debt service on TUC and to pay Belber's salary I say...hop to it...because I am paying your salary BIG BOY!

 

Don't get me wrong I never want to see UA leave SEFCU permanently but...if we want to grow we will have to think about playing a game or two down there...its a credible way of reaching out even more fans as we expand the Purple universe!

[Clickclack]

In my opinion it's way to premature to talk TUC. We need to start selling out the CUE on a regular basis before we start talking a larger venue. Unless we are yet again in the CC game we stay away, unless we want to be saddled with the same problem Siena is having, playing their games in a cave with zero energy.

 

There is no credible evidence to suggest that Siena is planning an on-campus facility. It was an erroneous report put out by Capital News 9 that was retracted mere hours later, someone jumped the gun over there when they acquired the land and building across the street. To this day nothing no tangible move in that direction has been made by Siena, from what I gather.

 

It pains me to say this but had our record been better then 1-5 against Siena we could demand a larger piece of the pie. As it stand right now, no doubt we should get a substantial boost in the ticket revenue we get to keep. And since there is no way to really know how many of the 11K+ people in the stand are UA fans we don't really know how badly we are getting hosed from a financial stand point. No doubt we are getting hosed the question is how much? I think we need to win some games and improve on the current deal. This might take another contract cycle to get this to be a truly neutral game with both schools equally benefiting. Right now, Siena no doubt gets the lions share of the benefits.

 

I've said this a million times, instead of pining for respect from Siena and their fan base we need to put ourselves in the position where we force them to recognize us as equals. One way we can achieve this is by winning games against them and continue to grow our fan base and program in general. I hope we aren't forgetting that we are still in our infancy as a DI program. These things take time and respect comes with consistent success. I think for the most part many of their posters/fans etc. have a healthy respect for UA and our program, some mental midgets not withstanding (alum00, 'ainst73 and SaintsFan) this wasn't the case 3 or 4 years ago. No doubt we've had a more successful run over the last couple of years RPI wise and post season play overall record etc. but the key to making this game more equatable is to beat them and beat them consistently and not once in 6 years. I know the last couple of games have been very very close losses but they were still losses. My only point being that we beat them and beat them consistently and try to make this deal as equatable as possible. Canceling this game would suck big fat hairy toe as it's still a nice payday, yes not equatable but still allot of money for going 10 minutes down the road, not to mention it totally gets the community fired up, those of us who were there last year saw the epic battle and even tho some Siena fans piss on this game saying things like this game is only important to UA or that Siena doesn't care if it continues and that it's our most important game of the season etc. It's undeniable that it was awesome basketball and really could be a great tool to improve both schools fan base as casual fans will start to chose sides, not to mention a huge payday for Siena and a nice one for us.

 

SienaTony,

 

I'm not sure how UA has more to gain from this game. Financially, no doubt Siena has substantially more to lose then UA this isn't even a question. Yes, you have a great home schedule this year but it remains to be seen where you can even come close to getting 11K people there. I think you'll fall far far short of that number, perhaps as much as 2K or 3K people short. Obviously this isn't supported by any fact since the event hasn't happened but time will tell. It's also important to note that this type of schedule isn't the norm for Siena so while it's convenient to mention it now at this point in time it's the exception and not the norm. I know you've had some strong teams come into the TUC but again it's the exception.

 

Siena fans in their own arrogant way try to paint this game as no big deal while at the same time trying to make us look like this is life or death to us, the fact is it's not. If one is to be intellectually honest (Siena or UA fan) we must acknowledge it's importance for both schools. Those that were there for the last couple of games, know that both sides cheered just as hard. It's not like Siena fans said F* it I don't care. When Siena fans make comments like....oh it's UA's most important game and we stand to lose more it's just crap and nothing more then Siena fans trying to claim superiority by making us out to be like a step child. The fact of the matter is Siena wants this win as much if not more so then UA fans to stem the rising tide that is UA. 6 or 7 years ago there was no doubt who the big dog was in the CD, now ask a casual fan and you'd get a much more muted response.

[Dane Pound]

The reason I went through the then Pepsi Arena's ticket office is because I knew that the tickets that UAlbany had been given were for even worse seats. The more I think about Siena and the TUC, the more angry I get.

 

I've never actually heard verification of this but my understanding is that UAlbany keeps the revenue for tickets bought through the Univeristy. No matter where the seats I will get my tickets through the UA box office no matter where the tickets are located.

[Clickclack]

The reason I went through the then Pepsi Arena's ticket office is because I knew that the tickets that UAlbany had been given were for even worse seats. The more I think about Siena and the TUC, the more angry I get.

 

I've never actually heard verification of this but my understanding is that UAlbany keeps the revenue for tickets bought through the Univeristy. No matter where the seats I will get my tickets through the UA box office no matter where the tickets are located.

 

 

Same here, I will ALWAYS purchase my tix from UA.

[olddog71]

As any regular poster here knows, the Siena game setup rankles me a lot. Just a few more observations.

 

One of you posters stated that you went to the Siena office or Pepsi to buy your tickets because you wanted better seats. That comment says a lot. It speaks to the inequality of the seats UA receives for its fans at this game. I wonder how many other UA fans received their tickets in this manner.

 

One point missing in the breakdown of just who buys tickets for this game is the number of students who attend. The UA fans come much more from the student base than Siena's attendance for the game. I don't know how many UA students can really afford to attend. I know I certainly did not have such money when i was in college. What would be the fan breakdown by school if the ticket prices were more reasonable or at least comparable to UA prices.

 

Looking at Siena fan comments on the game on their board, I am struck by the arrogance I see displayed over there. They make the following assumptions about future games:

 

(1) The game will always be held at the TUC.

 

(2) Their fans always believe the UA game will be a home game for them.

 

(3) They always believe they will have the same seats for the UA game they've held for each other game.

 

(4) Their fans always consider themselves superior to UA, so that's why the unfair contract terms should continue. Of course, if they're desperate for a game or two, they'll play NJIT. (That's NJIT, not in the NIT.)

 

They base their superiority on their recent 5-1 record against us. I happen to see things a little more differently, and if I were in their shoes I'd be a lot more humble. Playing them in the early years of the modern rivalry when we had only recently entered Division I level of play is like playing against your grandmother with HER hands tied behind her back. I would hardly call the last three years any great superiority. As a matter of fact, when you take the winning margin of the last three contests, UA comes out ahead. (And for you Siena visitors here, don't blame it on Lanier. As far as I remember, he didn't miss any field goals or free throws in the game where we whooped you.) If two of the last three games had been played at SEFCU, I am confident that the overall record would be 4-2, hardly a great superior record.

 

If I'm called an "old man" or a "whiner" by them, then so be it. I have noted MANY comments over the last season by their fans on their board that berate the conditions in the TUC and the lack of fans they have attracted to their games and the lack of enthusiasm of their fans. Whole threads have been devoted to these concerns.

 

I am sure that, if the game continues to be played, that the terms of the present contract will be changed to reflect the new reality and become much fairer to UA. When that eventuality occurs, I am looking forward to the comments over on the other board. At that point, we will see who the real "old men," "whiners," and "crybabies" will be.

 

Once again, I would love to see a good game between the two schools that would give equal treatment to each school. This game has the potential to be the best draw for college basketball east of Syracuse and north of New York City. When the Siena fans realize this, then perhaps the game will reach its best potential.

[UA_MA_2000]

If UAlbany increases prices down the road for the SEFCU Arena seats for all games or even just for a future hypothetical Siena game at the SEFCU, and if we continue to get only 3,000 (3,000 * $18 = $54,000 (and no money from concessions)) tickets for seats (from which we keep the revenue) for the Siena game, then it seems to me that it makes NO FINANCIAL sense to play down at the TUC (versus the SEFCU Arena), as we would be able to generate more or close to the same revenue at the TUC (doesn't UA make money on concessions at the SEFCU as well?). Please allow the following to demonstrate this point.

 

Ok, so let's say UA sells all of its allocated tickets for the Siena game at the TUC. We just made $54,000, and that's it (assuming the tickets are $18 each). But if the game is at the SEFCU, how much would we have to charge for the Siena game to go over that figure? What if UA (i) included the Siena game in the season ticket package for UAlbany fans; and (ii) hosted the game every other year at the SEFCU, but charge, let's say, $15 for reserved, $25 for chairbacks, and whatever amount for the courtside seats. And look at that! We just generated more money by having the game at the SEFCU! And Siena can still have 600 tickets or so (or none for all I care). And don't forget about concessions at the SEFCU and all of the bbq chicken sandwhiches that I eat.

 

Setting aside the current pricing differences for seats at the SEFCU: if we charged $15 for 4,000 seats at the SEFCU for the Siena game (with the current pricing scheme remaining the same for other games), then that is $60,000 in revenue before we even tack on concessions. And look at that; we generate more revenue. Of course, there are costs in hosting a game at the SEFCU (cleanup, staff, students working at the games, etc.). So perhaps we could charge $18 for the tickets at the SEFCU. Again, assuming all prices are equal at the SEFCU, if we charge $18 for 4,000 seats, that is $72,000 (plus an extra amount attributable to the higher priced tickets in the chairback and courtside seating sections, as well as concessions). Only Dr. M. would know for sure what the costs are for hosting a game at the SEFCU, but given how easy it would be to generate money for the home Siena game by raising the tickets prices for just that game (like Siena currently does), it would seem to me that we can make much more money by having the game at the SEFCU as opposed to getting our 3,000 end-zone & upper tier tickets at the TUC.

 

So under the current arrangement, can someone tell me where I'm going wrong and why having the game at the SEFCU isn't potentially in our best fiscal interest (assuming a slight price increase for the Siena game were it to be hosted at the SEFCU Arena)? Because I think it can be.

[UA_MA_2000]

The reason I went through the then Pepsi Arena's ticket office is because I knew that the tickets that UAlbany had been given were for even worse seats. The more I think about Siena and the TUC, the more angry I get.

 

I've never actually heard verification of this but my understanding is that UAlbany keeps the revenue for tickets bought through the Univeristy. No matter where the seats I will get my tickets through the UA box office no matter where the tickets are located.

 

 

Same here, I will ALWAYS purchase my tix from UA.

 

I think that is what I will do from now on, knowing the financial structure of the game. Moreover, sitting with LCC fans is boring.

[bterrywps]

As a UAlbany fan, I wish the UAlbany v Siena game was more neutral as well. However, it will take some very heavy negotiating by the school itself to get that to happen.

 

The fact is, Siena is still the more respected local DI college basketball team. They have more history than we do as they have been DI much longer...that's a fact And, regarding this issue in particular, this is indeed their home game...another fact. They get everything they get for any other home game. That was the contract which was signed. Hopefully we can change this in the future to better benefit both schools, but for now, that's how it is.

 

Now, on another point, we shouldn't get ourselves all caught up in this game. It is simply one OOC game against a team which is very much equal with us from similar RPI conferences...the team just happens to be from the same area. I'm sure if you asked any Siena fan they would trade the win over Albany the past two years for a conference championship and an NCAA berth. Still we should focus on one thing regarding this game...winning it!

 

I know that on a few occasions Coach Brown has voiced his opinion on how he also wishes this game was more neutral. But I also know he has said that he only wishes Siena to lose one game all season...this one! He has said many times that he supports Siena in all other games and thinks Fran McCaffery has done an excellent job turning the Siena program around.

 

In closing, as I said before, I do hope in the future we can turn this into more of a community event and less of a home/away game for either team. We all know that neither team is more home or away than the other when it comes to a literal sense. But all this speculation on Siena's attendence, and on how many people they will draw for other games in the season, and how much money they will make is really not worth it.

 

UAlbany fans should be worried about only one Siena game...and that is the one that is scheduled as an away game for UAlbany and is "at Siena."...for the time being. If we focus more on just winning this game, whether home or away, and getting as many UAlbany fans there as possible, perhaps then the school will be able to have more influence on the future of this great cross-town rivalry.

[bob87]

As a UAlbany fan, I wish the UAlbany v Siena game was more neutral as well. However, it will take some very heavy negotiating by the school itself to get that to happen.

 

The fact is, Siena is still the more respected local DI college basketball team. They have more history than we do as they have been DI much longer...that's a fact And, regarding this issue in particular, this is indeed their home game...another fact. They get everything they get for any other home game. That was the contract which was signed. Hopefully we can change this in the future to better benefit both schools, but for now, that's how it is.

 

Now, on another point, we shouldn't get ourselves all caught up in this game. It is simply one OOC game against a team which is very much equal with us from similar RPI conferences...the team just happens to be from the same area. I'm sure if you asked any Siena fan they would trade the win over Albany the past two years for a conference championship and an NCAA berth. Still we should focus on one thing regarding this game...winning it!

 

I know that on a few occasions Coach Brown has voiced his opinion on how he also wishes this game was more neutral. But I also know he has said that he only wishes Siena to lose one game all season...this one! He has said many times that he supports Siena in all other games and thinks Fran McCaffery has done an excellent job turning the Siena program around.

 

In closing, as I said before, I do hope in the future we can turn this into more of a community event and less of a home/away game for either team. We all know that neither team is more home or away than the other when it comes to a literal sense. But all this speculation on Siena's attendence, and on how many people they will draw for other games in the season, and how much money they will make is really not worth it.

 

UAlbany fans should be worried about only one Siena game...and that is the one that is scheduled as an away game for UAlbany and is "at Siena."...for the time being. If we focus more on just winning this game, whether home or away, and getting as many UAlbany fans there as possible, perhaps then the school will be able to have more influence on the future of this great cross-town rivalry.

 

bterrywps

 

You make some good points.

Some of which I agree with and some of which I disagree with, but this sentence is not correct." The fact is, Siena is still the more respected local DI college basketball team. "

 

they have been d1 longer, but what knowledgeable people still think they are better or do you mean something else by more respected. Certainly , not ESPN when selecting the bracketbuster games over the last 2 years. Certainly not the coaches voting in the mid major poll. Certainly not the NCAA selection committee who put UA as a 13 seed and the maac champion in the play-in game on the merits of the full season. Most knowledgeable college basketball fans know that the leagues are comparable and neither is going to get confused with the big east or acc although AE was 2-2 in the regular season vs. the acc.

This year the AE was better than the maac, last year the maac was better than the AE, the year before that the AE was better than the maac. A siena fan pointed out on their board that the maac has a better head to head vs AE over the last 2 seasons. However he did not go back 3 seasons a time frame in which AE has a better head to head vs the maac. In other words, now that the 3 new d1 schools in the AE have had time to establish themselves, the leagues are about as close as leagues could be.

 

As far as the money aspect, you may not want to address it, but it is a fact of life for both schools. The game makes a good amount of money and there is no reason UA can't negotiate a fair share of that and doing so should have nothing to do with head-to-head record. If they can't both schools have other options.

As I see it Albany is in better position to replace the series because you can replace 2 road games with either a home and home with a comparable team(which is certainly better than subsidizing a competitor) or you could get a higher guarantee with a better team. Whereas there is no way Siena will replace 2 games of 10,000 or 11,000 fans EACH. The best they can do is get a home and home with a team that will draw 10,000 - 12,000 fans in 1 of 2 games and more likely they are looking at a home and home with a team that will draw 4,000 - 6,000 in one of 2 games. Personally I would prefer UA have a home and home series with the best mid major we could get until the time Siena provides fair finances.

[UA_MA_2000]

As a UAlbany fan, I wish the UAlbany v Siena game was more neutral as well. However, it will take some very heavy negotiating by the school itself to get that to happen.

 

The fact is, Siena is still the more respected local DI college basketball team. They have more history than we do as they have been DI much longer...that's a fact And, regarding this issue in particular, this is indeed their home game...another fact. They get everything they get for any other home game. That was the contract which was signed. Hopefully we can change this in the future to better benefit both schools, but for now, that's how it is.

 

Now, on another point, we shouldn't get ourselves all caught up in this game. It is simply one OOC game against a team which is very much equal with us from similar RPI conferences...the team just happens to be from the same area. I'm sure if you asked any Siena fan they would trade the win over Albany the past two years for a conference championship and an NCAA berth. Still we should focus on one thing regarding this game...winning it!

 

I know that on a few occasions Coach Brown has voiced his opinion on how he also wishes this game was more neutral. But I also know he has said that he only wishes Siena to lose one game all season...this one! He has said many times that he supports Siena in all other games and thinks Fran McCaffery has done an excellent job turning the Siena program around.

 

In closing, as I said before, I do hope in the future we can turn this into more of a community event and less of a home/away game for either team. We all know that neither team is more home or away than the other when it comes to a literal sense. But all this speculation on Siena's attendence, and on how many people they will draw for other games in the season, and how much money they will make is really not worth it.

 

UAlbany fans should be worried about only one Siena game...and that is the one that is scheduled as an away game for UAlbany and is "at Siena."...for the time being. If we focus more on just winning this game, whether home or away, and getting as many UAlbany fans there as possible, perhaps then the school will be able to have more influence on the future of this great cross-town rivalry.

 

I'm not sure I agree that it is "a fact" that Siena is the more respected team in the area. First, how do we measure the rather amorphous concept of "respect"? I can think of several different ways to attempt to quantify that variable, but I am curious as to what your thoughts are in terms of Siena being the more "respected" team in the area. Most of the variables measuring "respect" that I can think of might favor UAlbany (save, perhaps, average attendance or number of years at division I status). Yes, they have had many more years at division I. But setting history aside, who "respects" them more now? Maybe their own fan base, but certainly not ours! Not getting caught up in the game sounds nice, but as long as the two programs appear regularly in threads on both forums and as long as the programs serve as "water-cooler" talk in the area, people will get caught up in the game, though I understand, and agree with, your essential point --- i.e., the game is only capable of adding one win or one loss to our record. Beyond that, it's a rivalry, and people, like myself, will get caught up in it. Just my $.02 ... .

 

When this thread was started, I thought that perhaps the TUC could be converted into a home game for UA every other year, or at the least, be a neutral site for the annual game. I no longer think that this is probable. Whether it be the locker rooms, the nature of the seats allocated to UAlbany, revenue sharing, advertisement around the arena, pre-game introductions, etc., there will always be signs of the game being a Siena home game. I continue to feel that the game should be at the SEFCU every other year, as I think that this can be just as financially lucrative for us, given the current fiscal arrangement, unless someone can show me that the costs of hosting the game on campus outweighs the revenue that we'd make from hosting the game. Also remember that my post above presumes that there would be a price adjustment for hosting the Siena game at the SEFCU (say, $15-$18 per ticket for reserved seats).

 

Of course, if the game is to be considered truly neutral, then all seats should go on sale at the same time to the public, with Siena season ticket holders receiving no preference. When I can buy a ticket for a seat that is normally held by a Siena season ticket holder, and the revenue is split 50/50 between the two schools, then we can begin to consider the game as being neutral. Until then, it's a road game, and I will continue to hold and voice my concerns.

 

And I continue to be baffled by this concept of the annual game being a "community event." What is a "community event?" This is a game for, and followed by, the two schools' students, alumni, and fans --- not the 99% of the people in this area who do not buy tickets for the game. Our season ticket holders have had to sit in not-so-desirable seats because Siena's season ticket holders get their seats for this game. It's only fair that the tables are turned every other year. And based on my post above, I think the game can provide us with more revenue than the game being held at the TUC under the currente arrangement. It is hard for me to consider this game as one that belongs to the capital district and the greater community when less than 1% of the people in this area buy tickets for the game, though tickets remain available at gametime. This is not a "community event," IMHO, but a UAlbany and Siena event, and we have every right to host the game at the SEFCU every other year. But I may be the only one to feel this way ... .

[olddog71]

As a UAlbany fan, I wish the UAlbany v Siena game was more neutral as well. However, it will take some very heavy negotiating by the school itself to get that to happen.

 

The fact is, Siena is still the more respected local DI college basketball team. They have more history than we do as they have been DI much longer...that's a fact And, regarding this issue in particular, this is indeed their home game...another fact. They get everything they get for any other home game. That was the contract which was signed. Hopefully we can change this in the future to better benefit both schools, but for now, that's how it is. . . .

 

I don't know why now heavy negotiating needs to be done to change the current contract. The situations have changed drastically since the second contract was negotiated three years ago. I'm not going to go into all the changes that have occurred in our program because all of us are already aware of them.

 

The major reason why I am very outspoken on this topic now is because of the timing of the situation. The first contract between the two schools took place six years ago and specified terms for three annual games. The second contract was written up three years ago, and it was my understanding that it was also a 3-year deal, which would mean that the second contract is now up. If we want better terms for the new contract, then it is up to us now to apply whatever pressure we have to change things.

 

Perhaps I come across to some of you here as a crank on this topic, but maybe now some of you realize why I am protesting now about the terms. Yes, it makes little sense to complain about current terms, unless you work to change future terms. I have already done so recently, and I urge the rest of you who also don't like the current contract to make your views known to the appropriate people.

 

Siena fans like to claim their superiority over us as the reason why the current terms are unequal. They cite their superior record over us (a flawed piece of logic when they have been the home team throughout the series), their league superiority (the facts are wrong, and basically there has been very little difference in league RPI's over the last 3 years, better turnout at the annual games), but these fans do not apply the same logic to their contracts with other schools. They are willing to take equal terms in playing schools like NJIT and Dartmouth, teams that are simply far below UA in the last few years.

 

The reason why the game is played at the TUC is because it is the only place in the Capital District that can accommodate expected crowds. That is the only reason, and it just happens to be the place where Siena plays its home games. There are few obstacles that need to be overcome to achieve a much fairer contract for UA. It should not be as difficult as some people claim. Contracts are renegotiated and modified all the time.

 

Once again, if you disagree with past terms, then now is the time to make your voice heard. Hopefully, you can understand my position better.

[bterrywps]

I understand what you're saying about the "respect" issue, but, at least from what I've seen (and I'm not saying I like it), Siena still has the upper hand in the area. I don't mean in any way that those who are basketball knowledgable respect Siena any more than they do UAlbany, but not everyone who attends the UAlbany v. Siena game knows everything about both schools and college hoops in general. For some people, all they know is what they see...and what they have seen for 5 of the last 6 meetings is a Siena victory and a UAlbany loss.

 

There are people who go to that one game who will then proceed not to go to either a UAlbany game or a Siena game for the rest of the season. And although UAlbany takes up the headlines on the news for a time in March, what sticks in people's heads is that Siena won and UAlbany lost. So, when it comes to local residents, if you ask the average person to name the first college they think of when you say "local college basketball," the chances are they will still say Siena.

 

As I said before, those who know a lot about local college sports would most likely not feel the same way, but the area is not made up entirely of college hoops experts, and many people of these people who don't know much about it, still come to the game because it is a local rivalry and its a fun thing to do on a Saturday.

 

Which brings me back to the point I made earlier, we need to focus on one thing in regards to this game...winning it. When those same people see us win the game a few times, their opinions will be easily influenced and perhaps UAlbany will be what comes to mind when it comes to Albany college hoops.