UA @ UNH

[I rock(ed) the Cape]

Typically boysidid does the pre-game thread, but I had to get this started after reading the latest blog post by Mark S. Apparently UA can clinch the 5 seed tonight with a win, a loss by UMBC and a win by Stony Brook. Not really sure how tie breakers work, but I am curious how seeding would play out if we lost to UMBC in the season finale and had the same record as them?

[Dane Pound]

Pretty sure it goes by wins over the top teams in the conference. With our wins over Bing, Vermont and BU I think we'd get the tiebreaker. That's what happened last year. We had the same record as Hartford but they won the tiebreaker by virtue of a win over UMBC who was #1 (granted it was the last game of the season and UMBC was resting their starters.)

 

Sounds like we might not see Raffa again. They're saying he won't practice again till next week and his season might be over. Tough way for his season to end.

[UA'08]

what does the sbu hartford game have to do with anything. if we win and bing wins we have no less then a fifth with a possibility at fourth if sbu loses

[UAalum72]

Tonight's game is on www.channelsurfing.net/

[Clickclack]

Tonight's game is on www.channelsurfing.net/

 

Sweet!

[uofalbany]

Tonight's game is on www.channelsurfing.net/

 

Nice catch 72

[I rock(ed) the Cape]

AWESOME

[Zalman B]

11. Championship Tie-breaking Procedure: Teams tied for first place will be deemed “co-champions.”

 

Ties for championship seeding will be broken from the top of the standings down. In the event of a tie

between two or more teams, the tie shall be broken using the following criteria in order:

 

a. Winning percentage in conference games versus the other teams with which it is tied (i.e.

head-to-head-competition.

 

b. Winning percentage in conference games versus the other conference opponents in descending

rank order. In the event of arriving at another group of tied teams when comparing records,

each team’s record (winning percentage) versus the tied teams is used rather than the

performance versus the individual tied teams.

 

c. Winning percentage in conference road games. In the event a conference game was played on

a neutral court, the team awarded the home game by the conference offi ce when the schedule

was issued is considered the home team.

 

d. RPI ranking as determined by the College RPI Report through the end of regular-season

conference games.

 

e. Draw conducted by the Commissioner or his/her designee.

 

Once a tie is broken among two of more teams, immediately return to (a) to break the tie between the

remaining teams.

 

From here (Page 27).

[Zalman B]

Typically boysidid does the pre-game thread, but I had to get this started after reading the latest blog post by Mark S. Apparently UA can clinch the 5 seed tonight with a win, a loss by UMBC and a win by Stony Brook. Not really sure how tie breakers work, but I am curious how seeding would play out if we lost to UMBC in the season finale and had the same record as them?

 

OK, let's give it a shot. In order for us to finish with the same record as UMBC following a loss to them in the final game, we have to have a win tonight at UNH coupled with a loss by UMBC tonight at Bing. If those two things happen tonight and we drop the final game to UMBC, we will both stand at 7-9 in the conference.

 

The first tie-breaker is often quoted as being "head-to-head" record (which would be 1-1, so no help), but it actually seems to be a little more complicated than that. The first tie-breaker is actually "Winning percentage in conference games versus the other teams with which it is tied (i.e. head-to-head-competition." While the presence of the "i.e. head-to-head-competition" seems somewhat misleading, the rest of the sentence would indicate that, in order to break the potential tie between UA and UMBC, we have to first determine which other teams, if any, are tied at 7-9 so that we can calculate the winning percentage versus the other teams with which UA would be tied.

 

So here are the alternatives (under the circumstances described above (UA win at UNH, UMBC loss at Bing, UA loss at UMBC):

 

Scenario 1:

Stony Brook loses at Hartford tonight.

Stony Brook loses at UNH on Sunday.

 

Then - UA, UMBC, Stony Brook and UNH all finish at 7-9.

UA's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UMBC, Stony Brook, UNH) would be 2-4 (1-1, 0-2, 1-1).

UMBC's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, Stony Brook, UNH) would be 2-4 (1-1, 0-2, 1-1).

Stony Brook's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, UMBC, UNH) would be 4-2 (2-0, 2-0, 0-2).

UNH's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, UMBC, Stony Brook) would be 4-2 (1-1, 1-1, 2-0).

 

Then, Stony Brook and UNH move onto the second tie-breaker to decide 4/5 seeding and UA and UMBC move onto the second tie-breaker to decide 6/7 seeding.

 

Now it gets a bit complicated. UVM finishes at 13-3. Bing also finishes at 13-3. Although Bing wins the tie-breaker over UVM by virtue of the 2-0 H2H record, the second tiebreaker would look at the combined records of both teams vs UA/UMBC and Stony Brook/UNH (Winning percentage in conference games versus the other conference opponents in descending rank order. In the event of arriving at another group of tied teams when comparing records, each team’s record (winning percentage) versus the tied teams is used rather than the

performance versus the individual tied teams.)

 

So, focusing on UA for the moment -

If UVM wins on Sunday:

UA went 1-1 versus Bing and 1-1 versus UVM, so 2-2 combined.

UMBC will have gone 1-1 versus Bing and 0-2 versus UVM, so 1-3 combined.

UA wins and gets the #6 seed.

 

If UVM loses on Sunday:

UA went 1-1 versus Bing.

UMBC will have gone 1-1 versus Bing.

EDIT

UA went 1-1 versus #2 UVM.

UMBC went 0-2 versus #2 UVM.

END EDIT

UA wins and gets the #6 seed.

 

So, in Scenario #1, UA would be the #6 seed.

#6 UA would play #3 Boston in the first round.

#7 UMBC would play #2 UVM in the first round.

#4 Stony Brook would play #5 UNH in the first round.

 

UNH is 0-4 versus Bing and UVM.

Stony Brook is 0-4 versus Bing and UVM.

No matter what happens with UVM on Sunday, tiebreaker #2 doesn't help here.

EDIT

Stony Brook is 1-1 versus #3 Boston.

UNH is is 0-2 versus #3 Boston.

END EDIT

 

Stony Brook therefore gets the #4 seed and plays #5 UNH (so really all that made no difference whatsoever in terms of match-ups). It is interesting to note, however, that Stony Brook would apparently win the tiebreaker over UNH despite losing both games to UNH.

 

Scenario 2:

Stony Brook wins at Hartford tonight.

Stony Brook loses at UNH on Sunday.

 

Stony Brook finishes at 8-8, the #4 seed.

 

UA, UMBC, UNH finish tied at 7-9.

UA's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UMBC, UNH) would be 2-2 (1-1, 1-1).

UMBC's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, UNH) would be 2-2 (1-1, 1-1).

UNH's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, UMBC) would be 2-2 (1-1, 1-1).

 

OK, that was worthless. Moving on to the second tie-breaker.

Whether UVM wins on Sunday or loses, the results are the same.

 

With a UVM win:

UA went 1-1 versus Bing and 1-1 versus UVM, so 2-2 combined.

UMBC will have gone 1-1 versus Bing and 0-2 versus UVM, so 1-3 combined.

UNH went 0-2 versus Bing and 0-2 versus UVM, so 0-4 combined.

 

UA wins, so UA is the #5 seed.

UMBC is next, so the #6 seed.

UNH is last, so the #7 seed.

 

With a UVM loss:

UA went 1-1 versus Bing.

UMBC will have gone 1-1 versus Bing.

UNH went 0-2 versus Bing.

UNH is out - #7 seed.

 

EDIT

UA went 1-1 versus UVM.

UMBC went 0-2 versus UVM.

END EDIT

 

UA gets the #5 seed.

UMBC gets the #6 seed.

 

So, in Scenario #2, UA is the #5 seed.

Stony Brook gets the #4 seed and faces #5 UA in the first round.

UMBC gets the #6 seed and faces #3 Boston in the first round.

UNH gets the #7 seed and faces #2 UVM in the first round.

 

Scenario #3:

Stony Brook beats UNH on Sunday.

 

This alone cleans things up considerably.

Stony Brook can finish no worse than 8-8, earning the #4 seed.

UNH can finish no better than 6-10, earning the #7 seed.

 

UA and UMBC finish tied at 7-9.

UA's combined record versus the other team with which it is tied (UMBC) would be 1-1.

Amazingly, UMBC's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA) would be the same 1-1!

Helpful, right?

 

Under these circumstances, UVM's Sunday game is irrelevant to UA. Either way, UA wins the #5 seed by virtue of tiebreaker #2.

UA and UMBC will both be 1-1 versus Bing, but UA is 1-1 versus UVM while UMBC is 0-2.

 

So, in Scenario #3, UA is the #5 seed.

Stony Brook gets the #4 seed and faces #5 UA in the first round.

UMBC gets the #6 seed and faces #3 Boston in the first round.

UNH gets the #7 seed and faces #2 UVM in the first round.

 

I think those may be only 3 scenarios where we can lose to UMBC in the final game and still have the same record as they do.

[bob87]

Tonight's game is on www.channelsurfing.net/

 

 

It is also a TV game. Channel 630 on Directv.

[danes05]

Is channelsurfing.net video or just audio?

[MRSGDG]

Is channelsurfing.net video or just audio?

 

 

Whenever I have used it to watch a game it is video.

[I rock(ed) the Cape]

-->

QUOTE(Zalman B @ Feb 26 2009, 05:20 PM) 41079[/snapback]

Typically boysidid does the pre-game thread, but I had to get this started after reading the latest blog post by Mark S. Apparently UA can clinch the 5 seed tonight with a win, a loss by UMBC and a win by Stony Brook. Not really sure how tie breakers work, but I am curious how seeding would play out if we lost to UMBC in the season finale and had the same record as them?

 

OK, let's give it a shot. In order for us to finish with the same record as UMBC following a loss to them in the final game, we have to have a win tonight at UNH coupled with a loss by UMBC tonight at Bing. If those two things happen tonight and we drop the final game to UMBC, we will both stand at 7-9 in the conference.

 

The first tie-breaker is often quoted as being "head-to-head" record (which would be 1-1, so no help), but it actually seems to be a little more complicated than that. The first tie-breaker is actually "Winning percentage in conference games versus the other teams with which it is tied (i.e. head-to-head-competition." While the presence of the "i.e. head-to-head-competition" seems somewhat misleading, the rest of the sentence would indicate that, in order to break the potential tie between UA and UMBC, we have to first determine which other teams, if any, are tied at 7-9 so that we can calculate the winning percentage versus the other teams with which UA would be tied.

 

So here are the alternatives (under the circumstances described above (UA win at UNH, UMBC loss at Bing, UA loss at UMBC):

 

Scenario 1:

Stony Brook loses at Hartford tonight.

Stony Brook loses at UNH on Sunday.

 

Then - UA, UMBC, Stony Brook and UNH all finish at 7-9.

UA's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UMBC, Stony Brook, UNH) would be 2-4 (1-1, 0-2, 1-1).

UMBC's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, Stony Brook, UNH) would be 2-4 (1-1, 0-2, 1-1).

Stony Brook's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, UMBC, UNH) would be 4-2 (2-0, 2-0, 0-2).

UNH's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, UMBC, Stony Brook) would be 4-2 (1-1, 1-1, 2-0).

 

Then, Stony Brook and UNH move onto the second tie-breaker to decide 4/5 seeding and UA and UMBC move onto the second tie-breaker to decide 6/7 seeding.

 

Now it gets a bit complicated. UVM finishes at 13-3. Bing also finishes at 13-3. Although Bing wins the tie-breaker over UVM by virtue of the 2-0 H2H record, the second tiebreaker would look at the combined records of both teams vs UA/UMBC and Stony Brook/UNH (Winning percentage in conference games versus the other conference opponents in descending rank order. In the event of arriving at another group of tied teams when comparing records, each team’s record (winning percentage) versus the tied teams is used rather than the

performance versus the individual tied teams.)

 

So, focusing on UA for the moment -

If UVM wins on Sunday:

UA went 1-1 versus Bing and 1-1 versus UVM, so 2-2 combined.

UMBC will have gone 1-1 versus Bing and 0-2 versus UVM, so 1-3 combined.

UA wins and gets the #6 seed.

 

If UVM loses on Sunday:

UA went 1-1 versus Bing.

UMBC will have gone 1-1 versus Bing.

UA will have gone 2-6 on the road.

UMBC will have gone 2-6 on the road.

UA should have a higher RPI (tiebreaker #4).

UA wins and gets the #6 seed.

 

So, in Scenario #1, UA would be the #6 seed.

#6 UA would play #3 Boston in the first round.

#7 UMBC would play #2 UVM in the first round.

#4 Stony Brook would play #5 UNH in the first round.

 

UNH is 0-4 versus Bing and UVM.

Stony Brook is 0-4 versus Bing and UVM.

No matter what happens with UVM on Sunday, tiebreaker #2 doesn't help here.

Stony Brook would have a 4-4 road record.

UNH would have a 4-4 road record.

Stony Brook currently has an RPI of 181.

UNH currently has an RPI of 238.

I don't believe it is possible for UNH to pass Stony Brook at this point in the season.

Stony Brook therefore gets the #4 seed (by virtue of tiebreaker #4) and plays #5 UNH (so really all that made no difference whatsoever in terms of match-ups). It is interesting to note, however, that Stony Brook would apparently win the tiebreaker over UNH despite losing both games to UNH.

 

Scenario 2:

Stony Brook wins at Hartford tonight.

Stony Brook loses at UNH on Sunday.

 

Stony Brook finishes at 8-8, the #4 seed.

 

UA, UMBC, UNH finish tied at 7-9.

UA's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UMBC, UNH) would be 2-2 (1-1, 1-1).

UMBC's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, UNH) would be 2-2 (1-1, 1-1).

UNH's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA, UMBC) would be 2-2 (1-1, 1-1).

 

OK, that was worthless. Moving on to the second tie-breaker.

Whether UVM wins on Sunday or loses, the results are the same.

 

With a UVM win:

UA went 1-1 versus Bing and 1-1 versus UVM, so 2-2 combined.

UMBC will have gone 1-1 versus Bing and 0-2 versus UVM, so 1-3 combined.

UNH went 0-2 versus Bing and 0-2 versus UVM, so 0-4 combined.

 

UA wins, so UA is the #5 seed.

UMBC is next, so the #6 seed.

UNH is last, so the #7 seed.

 

With a UVM loss:

UA went 1-1 versus Bing.

UMBC will have gone 1-1 versus Bing.

UNH went 0-2 versus Bing.

UNH is out - #7 seed.

 

UA will be 2-6 on the road in conference.

UMBC will be 2-6 on the road in conference.

Tiebreaker #3 is no help.

 

UA currently has an RPI of 156.

UMBC currently has an RPI of 203.

I don't believe it's possible for UMBC to pass UA at this point in the season.

UA wins tiebreaker #4 (RPI) so gets the #5 seed.

UMBC gets the #6 seed.

 

So, in Scenario #2, UA is the #5 seed.

Stony Brook gets the #4 seed and faces #5 UA in the first round.

UMBC gets the #6 seed and faces #3 Boston in the first round.

UNH gets the #7 seed and faces #2 UVM in the first round.

 

Scenario #3:

Stony Brook beats UNH on Sunday.

 

This alone cleans things up considerably.

Stony Brook can finish no worse than 8-8, earning the #4 seed.

UNH can finish no better than 6-10, earning the #7 seed.

 

UA and UMBC finish tied at 7-9.

UA's combined record versus the other team with which it is tied (UMBC) would be 1-1.

Amazingly, UMBC's combined record versus the other teams with which it is tied (UA) would be the same 1-1!

Helpful, right?

 

Under these circumstances, UVM's Sunday game is irrelevant to UA. If UVM wins, UA wins the #5 seed by virtue of tiebreaker #2.

If UVM loses, UA wins the #5 seed by virtue of tiebreaker #4 - RPI rating. (UA and UMBC will both be 1-1 versus Bing, so tiebreaker #2 no longer helps and UA and UMBC will both be 2-6 on the road, so tiebreaker #3 doesn't help.)

 

So, in Scenario #3, UA is the #5 seed.

Stony Brook gets the #4 seed and faces #5 UA in the first round.

UMBC gets the #6 seed and faces #3 Boston in the first round.

UNH gets the #7 seed and faces #2 UVM in the first round.

 

I think those may be only 3 scenarios where we can lose to UMBC in the final game and still have the same record as they do.

 

 

Thanks a lot for the great analysis!

[alum73]

I'll just wait for the results and go watch the tournament.

[Zalman B]

Is channelsurfing.net video or just audio?

 

 

Whenever I have used it to watch a game it is video.

 

It always has been for me too, but all I get right now is audio.