BU @ UA - Monday 7PM

[Patch]

Last night, Black who I think is our best player goes to the line with a chance to take the lead and blows two FT's...on the other end, their big guy steps up and knocks down two. You could ask why did Black a decent FT shooter blow those two FT? Well when you just logged 35 minutes because there is no one else to run the point...your legs feel a bit like noodles.- Clickclack

 

I respectfully disagree Black should of atleast made one of two, they are Free Throws you get to step back get your breath and shoot.

 

Jon Iati the year Jamar was out played 40+ mpg and would have begged to take those shots.

 

For what it's worth Mike Black plays 1 minute a game more then Partin from BU and less than a minute more than DJ Irving of BU. Last night Black played 35 min and Irving and Partin played 34 and they looked pretty fresh at the end of the game.

 

I do wish we had Peter Hooley available to give Mike and Logan a breather. From what I've heard Hooley played very well at the point when Mike had a concussion in Canada and that he was recruited and expected to play both guard positions.

[dslyank]

Sorry I am back.

 

Coach said before the season that this team is a bunch of NICE guys who get along and like to play together; but he wondered where the toughness and leadership would come from.

Don't take me wrong a Levi or Lillis (an excellent student I know) would be nice but I'll take good kids and good students over some of the thugs I've seen in this league lately (going back to bingo and seeing $hi^brook the other night.) BU appears to have talent and I have not seen Vt yet, but this league and the ref's it employs seem to ALLOW a level of physical play that rewards thuggery over athletes. I for one think this contributes to the leagues LOW ratings.

 

As to the comment about football having higher aspirations and basketball not--no offense are you nuts. Football is going nowhere sorry to say. I've been complaining about D! football in this state, since before you were born (probably). New York lost it chance years ago to compete with florida state, nc state, michigan state, etc, etc. When they built the Carrier Dome( mostly state funded) in Syracuse, I almost had a coronary then and I was only twenty something. Sorry, but you can wish for the CCA or new yankee conference or whatever, but I bet we will be in the NEC for a long time yet (maybe forever). ps take a look at our record in the NEC over that last four years not a hugely better W/L % than basketball in the AE. I am a supporter of ALL UA sports and aspirations for undefeated seasons every year in every sport; but I stick to my comment that I'll take GOOD STUDENTS/ GOOD KIDS and honest and caring coaches over winning.

ps Clack, I am probably wrong and do not have time to look it all up, but I (from observation only) do not remember any AE team except perhaps Vermont playing a particularly difficult OOC schedule. This assessment simply is from memory (admittedly an old an poor one) as I checked scores this past nov/dec.

[statefan]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but, leaving the building on Saturday, I said to my friend that I thought Black's two missed free throws in the beginning of the second half was the turning point of that game.

 

I've already written four posts and wound up deleting each one before posting. So, I'm going to step back, ask some basic questions.

 

I'm not very knowledgable in defensive gameplanning. There is one set we seem to run a lot where Metcalf comes out very high to hedge, the offensive big he has primary responsibility for rolls to the basket and Metcalf tries hard but rarely, if ever, gets back in time. I don't understand the point of him coming out so high. I understand why other teams do it to us, but I do not understand why we put Metcalf in that position.

 

To state Clickclack's recitation of our season another way. We are now 1 - 11 against teams with an RPI of 222 of better and 14 - 0 against teams with an RPI of 263 or worse. We are 0 -5 against the top three teams in the conference and 7 - 0 against the bottom five. While I have not done all the arithmetic, it looks like we are virtually locked into the 4/5 game at the conference tournament. Coach Brown has stated many times that the goal is to compete for a conference championship every year. Has the goal been attained? Will it be attained if we win one game in the conference tournament? how about 2? I know this is speculative, but the idea of turning the tables on Stony Brook as they did to us last year is very appealing.

[Clickclack]

Sorry I am back.

 

Coach said before the season that this team is a bunch of NICE guys who get along and like to play together; but he wondered where the toughness and leadership would come from.

Don't take me wrong a Levi or Lillis would be nice but I'll take good kids and good students over some of the thugs I've seen in this league lately (going back to bingo and seeing $hi^brook the other night.) BU appears to have talent and I have not seen Vt yet, but this league and the ref's it employs seem to ALLOW a level of physical play that rewards thuggery over athletes. I for one think this contributes to the leagues LOW ratings.

 

As to the comment about football having higher aspirations and basketball not--no offense are you nuts. Football is going nowhere sorry to say. I've been complaining about D! football in this state, since before you were born (probably). New York lost it chance years ago to compete with florida state, nc state, michigan state, etc, etc. When they built the Carrier Dome( mostly state funded) in Syracuse, I almost had a coronary then and I was only twenty something. Sorry, but you can wish for the CCA or new yankee conference or whatever, but I bet we will be in the NECV for a long time yet (maybe forever). ps take a look at our record in the NEC over that last four years not a hugely better W/L % than basketball in the AE. I am a supporter of ALL UA sports and aspirations for undefeated seasons every year in every sport; but I stick to my comment that I'll take GOOD STUDENTS/ GOOD KIDS over winning.

 

This has to be a joke...comparing SBU to Bing? Sure, Tommy has had some questionable moments...kicking people, elbowing etc. but to compare those kids to thugs is a joke. Bing yes...SBU? I wish we had one of their "thugs" that do not run a-foul of the law, are generally good students, academically eligible and play their a$$ off...we have a team full of 20 minute "nice guys"...who when push comes to show fold like a deck of lawn chairs. Brown used to recruit 'those' guys...two years ago we were told we'd go back to more physical play, toughness etc. Maybe we'll see it one of these days...one look at them yesterday when BU cut it to single digits and there was plenty of time to go...I turned to my brother and said...you can book the L! You could see it; feel it! We kept stomping and chanting defense...I know alum73 did, I could hear a bunch of others in our section going HAM...I could hear them, I started a number of them...at the end of the night I was hoarse and all we had to show for it was another L!

[Clickclack]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but, leaving the building on Saturday, I said to my friend that I thought Black's two missed free throws in the beginning of the second half was the turning point of that game.

 

I've already written four posts and wound up deleting each one before posting. So, I'm going to step back, ask some basic questions.

 

I'm not very knowledgable in defensive gameplanning. There is one set we seem to run a lot where Metcalf comes out very high to hedge, the offensive big he has primary responsibility for rolls to the basket and Metcalf tries hard but rarely, if ever, gets back in time. I don't understand the point of him coming out so high. I understand why other teams do it to us, but I do not understand why we put Metcalf in that position.

 

To state Clickclack's recitation of our season another way. We are now 1 - 11 against teams with an RPI of 222 of better and 14 - 0 against teams with an RPI of 263 or worse. We are 0 -5 against the top three teams in the conference and 7 - 0 against the bottom five. While I have not done all the arithmetic, it looks like we are virtually locked into the 4/5 game at the conference tournament. Coach Brown has stated many times that the goal is to compete for a conference championship every year. Has the goal been attained? Will it be attained if we win one game in the conference tournament? how about 2? I know this is speculative, but the idea of turning the tables on Stony Brook as they did to us last year is very appealing.

 

Look at the numbers last season...one win against a 146 CCSU team...no other win against a top 200 opponent. ONE! Every year it's...wait one more year! Yeah, you read that right...our best win in two years has been CCSU of the NEC.

[Patch]

I'm not very knowledgable in defensive gameplanning. There is one set we seem to run a lot where Metcalf comes out very high to hedge, the offensive big he has primary responsibility for rolls to the basket and Metcalf tries hard but rarely, if ever, gets back in time. I don't understand the point of him coming out so high. I understand why other teams do it to us, but I do not understand why we put Metcalf in that position.- statefan

 

I'm not too knowledgeable either but from what I've heard the premise is to stop the guard from turning the corner or stopping and popping a three. The problem we have is that Metcalf is suppose hedge ans get help on his man slipping the screen. It appears our other defenders don't help quick enough or forget to help altogether. There a few who I have seen struggle with this but I won't name names because I may be wrong about their assignments.

 

Coach Brown has stated many times that the goal is to compete for a conference championship every year. Has the goal been attained? - statefan

 

Since 05/06 when we turned the corner, in 6 seasons we have been third or better 4 times.

 

In the last 4 years we have been third or better twice.

 

Brown's first three years UA 25 - 39 in AE play since then UA has been 54-43 - is that competitive??????

 

Does being in the top three make you a competitor????

[Clickclack]

I would say in a conference that is lets face it...BAD...a 1-4 record in the AE tournament is not good.

 

Furthermore, we were the #4 seed last season even though we technically tied Maine for third...saying we came in third twice IMO is a bit of a spin, the end result is we got SBU instead of Hartford so that in my book gives us one top 3 finish in the last four years...we of course lost to SBU last season as a four against a five.

 

If you asked me have we been a real contender in the last five years I'd say NO! Especially consider the number of times in the AE that a team not seeded 1st or 2nd has won the tournament. To put it mildly...if you 'aint first or second you have about a snowballs chance in hell historically.

[dslyank]

Sorry I am back.

 

Coach said before the season that this team is a bunch of NICE guys who get along and like to play together; but he wondered where the toughness and leadership would come from.

Don't take me wrong a Levi or Lillis would be nice but I'll take good kids and good students over some of the thugs I've seen in this league lately (going back to bingo and seeing $hi^brook the other night.) BU appears to have talent and I have not seen Vt yet, but this league and the ref's it employs seem to ALLOW a level of physical play that rewards thuggery over athletes. I for one think this contributes to the leagues LOW ratings.

 

As to the comment about football having higher aspirations and basketball not--no offense are you nuts. Football is going nowhere sorry to say. I've been complaining about D! football in this state, since before you were born (probably). New York lost it chance years ago to compete with florida state, nc state, michigan state, etc, etc. When they built the Carrier Dome( mostly state funded) in Syracuse, I almost had a coronary then and I was only twenty something. Sorry, but you can wish for the CCA or new yankee conference or whatever, but I bet we will be in the NECV for a long time yet (maybe forever). ps take a look at our record in the NEC over that last four years not a hugely better W/L % than basketball in the AE. I am a supporter of ALL UA sports and aspirations for undefeated seasons every year in every sport; but I stick to my comment that I'll take GOOD STUDENTS/ GOOD KIDS over winning.

 

This has to be a joke...comparing SBU to Bing? Sure, Tommy has had some questionable moments...kicking people, elbowing etc. but to compare those kids to thugs is a joke. Bing yes...SBU? I wish we had one of their "thugs" that do not run a-foul of the law, are generally good students, academically eligible and play their a$$ off...we have a team full of 20 minute "nice guys"...who when push comes to show fold like a deck of lawn chairs. Brown used to recruit 'those' guys...two years ago we were told we'd go back to more physical play, toughness etc. Maybe we'll see it one of these days...one look at them yesterday when BU cut it to single digits and there was plenty of time to go...I turned to my brother and said...you can book the L! You could see it; feel it! We kept stomping and chanting defense...I know alum73 did, I could hear a bunch of others in our section going HAM...I could hear them, I started a number of them...at the end of the night I was hoarse and all we had to show for it was another L!

 

 

clack I did not necessarily mean to compare brook with bing (that was obviously really out there) but if you look at our team vs most anyone else in the league we have better players in my opinion. Yet the teams that win are the most physical, not necessarily the better basketball players. And I feel the league allows this and in my opinion detracts from the game of basketball. Are we the national hockey league or the WWF. I like to see athletes be able to compete with their skills, finesse, and yes even their minds and not have to rely on brute strength only. I know I am venting, maybe searching why we can not win more with the quality athlete that we have. And I think one reason (in my opinion) is the league chooses to cover up its lack of quality by allowing a degree of physical play that in my opinion has been over the top.

[UA'08]

First round exits in the tournament every year since 07-08 except for 08-09 and that year we finished 7th. So finishing 3rd means $iena. The discrepancy from a 1st place team and 3rd place team is usually big anyway. Finishing 3rd is not an accomplishment and should not be rewarded.

[Clickclack]

First round exits in the tournament every year since 07-08 except for 08-09 and that year we finished 7th. So finishing 3rd means $iena. The discrepancy from a 1st place team and 3rd place team is usually big anyway. Finishing 3rd is not an accomplishment and should not be rewarded.

 

Since then we've been seeded third once!

[UA'08]

First round exits in the tournament every year since 07-08 except for 08-09 and that year we finished 7th. So finishing 3rd means $iena. The discrepancy from a 1st place team and 3rd place team is usually big anyway. Finishing 3rd is not an accomplishment and should not be rewarded.

 

Since then we've been seeded third once!

And the seed in then end is all that matters. So as far as I am concerned we finished 4th last year and 3rd in 07-08.

[UAalum72]

yank, it's funny that you say the league allows too much physical play, while on the AE board most complain that the refs call too many charges and touch fouls, especially compared to the Big East. Of course we 'saw' both complaints on opposite ends of the court yesterday (to your previous list I'd add the foul on Metcalf when he roofed a BU layup, and the 'shooting' foul for Irving when the ball never got higher than his knees). I was in a discussion before the game talking about just how inconsistent the refs are in this conference - even some who sometimes work higher leagues.

 

At the preseason meeting I asked CB who was going to be our enforcer. I guess we never got one. It's been so bad that I was actually surprised in the first half when we came up with a loose ball.

[MRSGDG]

Not trying to be funny with this post...but here is a number:

 

0

 

 

As in HEART. If I were a teammate of these guys...I probably would be ready to strangle my teammates.

 

These players have to be more responsible and held accountable for their action. Again, watching last night was disgusting to me...and at 18 years - 22 years old you shouldn't have to be motivated by a coach to put your foot on someone's neck.

 

Personally, I would lock these guys out of the gym and have them think about WHY they lose games like this...far too many games. It's not a talent issue...and it's not because Coach is wailing into them, an issue some had with his previous coaching style.

 

Sam Perkins quoted something by Coach that I loved, and I paraphrase: he (Brown) would be afraid to have Levi Levine on his team because he would probably punch some of his players. This was in reference to Levi living, drinking, sleeping, playing, dreaming, etc....hoops. This team is mentally soft...and that is not a coachable trait. It's missing an ingredient to fire them up. The championship teams, and for example Stony Brook today, has a gritty desire side to wanting to dive for every ball instead of reaching, get bloody, knock elbows...etc.

 

Now...our guys SOMETIMES do this...but they don't do it regularly. It's pretty clear--and there are times I scratch my head at some of Coach's moves in the past--that Will Brown is a fiery guy. It's also clear that his downtrodden teams when he first took over were fiery...as were his championship teams. It's not like it's not his personality.

 

In crunch time in a bunch of those games we don't have anyone stepping up and making plays when we really need them. When the game was on the line at Cornell, Wrobleski stepped up for them and knocked in a big shot. At Vermont, the game was on the line and Glass knocked in a big shot. Last night it was Partin. Meanwhile we are clanking free throws and missing open shots. Partin wanted the ball, wanted to take the shot and I didn't really see anyone on our side who really wanted to do that.

 

Two great comments.

[McFan]

I'm glad this was the first home game I've missed this year.

 

Random answers to questions above:

 

There is not tough guy. Some have been recruited but left or were dismissed (with reasons I'm sure). These names would be gone by now but would have filled that role the last few years: Ross, Turley, Raffa.

 

The players take a ton of blame for this, but (and I didn't see it so going from past experience) coach seems to take the foot of the gas with the lead. We rarely blow anyone out. We give up big leads. Some of that is style.

 

Finishing top 3 or 4 in this league means next to nothing. The bottom of this conference is barely D1.

 

Good academics and good character does mean something and coach gets major credit for that.

 

My 2 cents on an extension. If it's done it should be at a major pay cut. Yep, I said it, a pay cut. He levered two NCAA runs into a big contract and has never come close to performing up to that contract. Where could he go now? If we wants to go does anybody consider it a big loss?

 

It has been forever since we've had a big win. Hell even a really good win. What is it this year? Maine? Really, Maine? At home?

[UA'08]

We are what we are... We shall see what happens at the end of the season. To echo mcfan there is nothing to hang your hat on in a 3rd or 4th place finish in this league especially this year.