The Budget Shaft

[UAlbany09]

its been depressing to read the boards these last couple of weeks.

[UBBulls]

I just wanted to point out that, no matter what comes of this whole "flagship" issue, you all should not worry about Albany's reputation. With or without SUNY favoring certain campuses, the proposals in the Higher Education report will allow for more autonomy, and improvements to the system, both in facilities and higher quality faculty. I disagree with the opinions posted about Albany becoming a second class citizen, like a CCS, Georgia State, or Grand Valley State, even if someone declares, "UB, BU, SBU, all flagships, not UA". At the very least, UA will improve with SUNY reform and should work to gain invitation to the AAU, just as UB (1989) and SBU (2001) have. I'm sure some of you realize the AAU members from the UC system, which is facing an estimated 10% decrease in funding from that state government:

 

University of California, Los Angeles

University of California, Berkeley

University of California, Irvine

University of California, Davis

University of California, San Diego

University of California, Santa Barbara

 

There are the long-standing flagships, but Davis, Irvine, and Santa Barbara gained invitations in the mid '90's despite this. Separating the Centers may never happen here. Yes, UB is doing everything right as far as positioning itself as the de facto flagship, as some have predicted on this forum, but it was not our goal to grow at a cost to the other Centers. After Spitzer's SOTS, President Simpson stated in the faculty newspaper how shocked he was to hear the words "flagship" even mentioned (although it is true UB's news releases have run with the governor's use of the term). Many people associated with all four Centers have been using that term for many years, usually speaking of one Center being the flagship for "X" program (such as UB the flagship for Architecture) although certain boosters will always claim their place at the top overall.

[ATL_DANE]

I appreciate the pep talk UB Bull but forgive me if I question the motive. I feel like the beggar child being told "all will be well" by the rich aristocrat as he passes by me. In all honesty, being a flagship is a huge advantage even the blind can see.

 

I'm not so concerned with the "flagship" title. I'm concerned with everything that comes with it.... money, facilities, faculty and prestige. The NY Times said UB2020 would cost New York over $1 Billion. $1.7 Billion if my memory serves me correctly. There is only so much money to go around. The other campuses will be underfunded in order to transform Buffalo into Ann Arbor. Based on Spitzer's budget, UAlbany obviously has no champion in the legislature.

 

UAlbany already has the toughest time of the four university centers recruiting quality prospective undergraduates. UA will drop in the national rankings, as we will struggle even more to get qualified students. Bingo currently attracts the best students of the four centers. Their role will be the "William and Mary" type campus. Buffalo has a law school and medical school. Buffalo is D1A football and they play in a 31,000 seat stadium. They are getting another campus downtown. UB isn't exactly hiding the fact that they are the new golden child. Stony Brook will be receiving an enormous amount of funding. They're gloating as much as UB. The Daily News has run a number of stories about this windfall.

 

Why should a high school student sitting at home tonight choose UA over UB, SBU or Bingo? If Spitzer's plans go through, that student shouldn't choose UA. It hurts to say but I wouldn't do it.

 

Nano is great but for all the development of nano, has the undergraduate experience improved? No. At least give UA a damn football stadium. Athletics has given the students and alumni something to be proud of. This site wouldn't exist without it. Throw us a freakin' bone on your way out of the steak house.

 

I'm sorry but the truth hurts. I only hope we can stop this.

[ATL_DANE]

Can anyone explain why Stony Brook is the 2nd flagship? What happened to helping upstate? Is this just to buy off the Long Island Republicans? I'm a life long Republican but maybe it's time to be an independent.

[uofalbany]

its been depressing to read the boards these last couple of weeks.

 

Are you a current student at the University?

 

Maybe a rally outside the Capitol Building sometime in the next month is something to ponder...........?

 

We would need some students to majorly promote such an event to the students on the University campuses, in order to pull in large numbers the day of the rally.

[ATL_DANE]

its been depressing to read the boards these last couple of weeks.

 

Are you a current student at the University?

 

Maybe a rally outside the Capitol Building sometime in the next month is something to ponder...........?

 

We would need some students to majorly promote such an event to the students on the University campuses, in order to pull in large numbers the day of the rally.

 

 

Yes! We need students to fight for their school. Can a few of the fraternities come together? Picket in front of the administration building... just call the news before you do it!

[uofalbany]

Can anyone explain why Stony Brook is the 2nd flagship? What happened to helping upstate? Is this just to buy off the Long Island Republicans? I'm a life long Republican but maybe it's time to be an independent.

 

It IS time you became an Independent.

The political party system is a joke now.

 

Is it official that these two have flagship status? Or is it an assumption because of the commission report and the governor's budget?

 

Maybe the governor is trying to jump start those two more quickly, but also having in mind bringing UA and Bingo along for the ride as well. What are his real intentions?

 

Some say Flagship status becomes official at some point. How does it become official and how does it remain permanent?

 

Is it written into SUNY law? Are there percentages of funding predetermined in order to favor the flagships and written into law?

 

When he leaves office, the budget proposals will change. I assume the new governor would have the ability to favor whatever University he wanted to.............. ?

 

Has anyone drilled him about this? He needs to come out and discuss this matter.

[ATL_DANE]

Those are good questions. Someone else may know the legalese.

 

I'm a business man. My view is something like this. Perception is reality.

 

For example, Chapel Hill is UNC. Sure there are other campuses but does it matter? Does it matter if their "flagship" status is statutory or if it's de facto? This is the same across the board nationally. Ann Arbor... what Michigan school can compete? How Michigan got to where they are isn't the point. They are "Michigan". Over time it just gets harder and harder to compete with them. The facilities get disproportionately better. Prestige is established. Campuses begin to establish legacies. Pick your state but it's the same outcome.

 

Who chooses CCSU over UConn? Who chooses North Texas over Texas? Spitzer will try to establish 2 flagships through pouring dollars into them. At a certain point there is no turning back.

 

Buffalo = Michigan?

Stony Brook = Michigan State?

 

Albany = Grand Valley State?

[GODANESGO]

Nano is great but for all the development of nano, has the undergraduate experience improved? No. At least give UA a damn football stadium. Athletics has given the students and alumni something to be proud of. This site wouldn't exist without it. Throw us a freakin' bone on your way out of the steak house.

 

I'm sorry but the truth hurts. I only hope we can stop this.

 

It's fine to be upset about the Governor's budget not including money for a stadium, but it's probably a good idea to stick to things you actually know about.

 

When was the last time you were a student on-campus at UAlbany? When was the last time you've been to UAlbany? When was the last time you actually lived in NYS?

[ATL_DANE]

Nano is great but for all the development of nano, has the undergraduate experience improved? No. At least give UA a damn football stadium. Athletics has given the students and alumni something to be proud of. This site wouldn't exist without it. Throw us a freakin' bone on your way out of the steak house.

 

I'm sorry but the truth hurts. I only hope we can stop this.

 

It's fine to be upset about the Governor's budget not including money for a stadium, but it's probably a good idea to stick to things you actually know about.

 

When was the last time you were a student on-campus at UAlbany? When was the last time you've been to UAlbany? When was the last time you actually lived in NYS?

 

After working for CNN for a number of years, I took a consulting job, which currently has back in the Capitol District for another short gig. My hotel is literally across the street from SUNY. I spend Sunday night to Thursday afternoon in Albany. Before the deep freeze, I would jog around the campus at night. I spend more time on that campus than many professors. Of course I go home on the weekends.

 

Leaving New York state has given me perspective on other state universities, especially flagships. Georgia Tech is gorgeous. Cal Berkley was fantastic. Michigan State was impressive. U of Florida was stunning. I even liked Boise State. All of those campuses are dramatically nicer than any SUNY campus I've seen. I think an objective observer would agree. So if Spitzer's plan is to turn Buffalo and Stony Brook into Ann Arbor clones... whoa! We're in trouble.

 

I'm just trying to sound the alarm bell because I love UA. Spitzer's wife is from NC. He's been down to UNC and wondered why NY doesn't t have such campuses. He's picked two SUNY campuses and he'll build them up. Mark my words. It's not just about the stadium. It's about setting a direction, a plan and building on momentum.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

[danefan]

Nano is great but for all the development of nano, has the undergraduate experience improved? No. At least give UA a damn football stadium. Athletics has given the students and alumni something to be proud of. This site wouldn't exist without it. Throw us a freakin' bone on your way out of the steak house.

 

I'm sorry but the truth hurts. I only hope we can stop this.

 

It's fine to be upset about the Governor's budget not including money for a stadium, but it's probably a good idea to stick to things you actually know about.

 

When was the last time you were a student on-campus at UAlbany? When was the last time you've been to UAlbany? When was the last time you actually lived in NYS?

 

 

GODANESGO,

 

This is a common theme with you. You seem to come on here and attack the alumni who question the student committment to UA. Well guess what, there is a reason people question student committment.

 

Where is the student voice?

 

Even better, why don't you, being one of the "students in residence" on this board tell us how UAlbany has changed in the past 3, 5, 10 years.

 

Tell us how nanotech has directly effected the undergraduate experience at UA.

Tell us how the MAJORITY of UA students support the university while in school and after they leave.

Tell us about the on campus outrage over the possibility of UA being passed over as a flagship.

 

This post sounds somewhat antagonistics, and maybe it is. But if these things are really happening I'd like to hear about them.

 

And before you get all bent out of shape, I'm not quetioning your personal committment to UA. You wouldn't post on a board like this if you didn't have a connection with UA. I'm questioning the rest of the student body. If things really have changed since I graduated in 2004 I'd love to hear how.

[Clickclack]

Has anyone thought of how we can get the student body involved. I mean come one.....we have 10K students on campus (don't know the exact number) perhaps 500 of them can mobilize and picket someones office. Hell, I'd be there picketing. Perhaps we can get something out to the student body through the student paper or even e-mail. We must try to tap into all those people on campus.

[GODANESGO]

GODANESGO,

 

This is a common theme with you. You seem to come on here and attack the alumni who question the student committment to UA. Well guess what, there is a reason people question student committment.

 

I would hope you don't actually think I'm attacking anyone, as I've just tried to put a lot of this news into a borader perspective while providing any 'inside' info on the related topics where I can. I simply asked a question of ATL_DANE, to which he gave a very informative answer.

 

It's quite easy for many on the board to post comments on behalf of students, and for them to be accepted, because there are very few current students on this board to reply. Most are alumni from 2, 5, 10, 25+ years ago. It's obviously fine for anyone and everyone to have any opinion on any topic, and I find it quite informative to read all the different perspectives. I just don't happen to think it's fair for people to post that students feel/don't feel or think/don't think this or that when they haven't been a student on-campus at the University for many years.

 

As with GD06, I just dropped my student "title" only a month ago after 5 1/2 years on campus as a student, finishing with both my bachelor's and master's..like many of you on this board. The difference I felt and saw among the student body in terms of their respect and appreciation for their University between Fall 2002 and Dec 2007 was/is just amazing! I will certainly admit that most of it came following our NCAA basketball appearance in 3/06 (so yes, much has chaged since Spring 2004), but that was really just the spark. And conversely, there will always be 'downers,' no matter where our academic programs or athletics teams are ranked.

 

When I started the RACC Rowdies in 1/05, Charlie Voelker told me that he'd support the group, with free pizza at first, if I got 12 students (12!!!) to the next game..I think I got about 15-20. Now we had the 1000+ seats of the student section about 2/3 full against last place Maine on the first day of the semester. During my frosh and soph (and even jr) years when I tried to get friends to go to games, their response was always "that teams just sucks." You don't hear that anymore! Now I have people who I don't know, but who've recognized me from games, ask me about game times, where/how to get tix, etc...especially underclassmen, showing that this reputation is already engrained by the time they get here. And, most importantly, this feeling has flowed to other areas of the University. Everyone and their brother on-campus knows that we have the top Nano program and one of the top Criminal Justice programs in the country. You hear it from students and staff alike all the time! Students are proud to say it.

 

Does that improve the student experience? Depends what you mean. I say yes because all of these growing attributes combined have, from what I have seen and experienced, increased the overall excitement among the student body. No, not many students are involved with Nano, but then again a large number of students never go to any athletic event in their years here. So what does an 'improved student experience' really mean?

 

Is there outrage among the student body that there's some talk that UAlbany might be 'passed over' as a flagship because of funding levels (outside of money for a brand new CC and business building) in the Governor's proposed budget? Other than for a few well-placed/informed students, I doubt it. As a student, their job is to take their 15-18 credits, work their 20 hours a week to pay for school, and try to maintain a social life. It's the job of the University administration, alumni, and community members to lobby for their school...and I think we've reacted strongly, and appropriately, to what we've found out over these past couple days.

 

So, to sum-up this story long post (haha)..yes, I have seen things change greatly (but there's always room for improvement!!) among the student body since 2004 and I don't think it's fair to students to have people far removed from them tell others how they think and feel.

[danefan]

GODANESGO,

 

This is a common theme with you. You seem to come on here and attack the alumni who question the student committment to UA. Well guess what, there is a reason people question student committment.

 

I would hope you don't actually think I'm attacking anyone, as I've just tried to put a lot of this news into a borader perspective while providing any 'inside' info on the related topics where I can. I simply asked a question of ATL_DANE, to which he gave a very informative answer.

 

It's quite easy for many on the board to post comments on behalf of students, and for them to be accepted, because there are very few current students on this board to reply. Most are alumni from 2, 5, 10, 25+ years ago. It's obviously fine for anyone and everyone to have any opinion on any topic, and I find it quite informative to read all the different perspectives. I just don't happen to think it's fair for people to post that students feel/don't feel or think/don't think this or that when they haven't been a student on-campus at the University for many years.

 

As with GD06, I just dropped my student "title" only a month ago after 5 1/2 years on campus as a student, finishing with both my bachelor's and master's..like many of you on this board. The difference I felt and saw among the student body in terms of their respect and appreciation for their University between Fall 2002 and Dec 2007 was/is just amazing! I will certainly admit that most of it came following our NCAA basketball appearance in 3/06 (so yes, much has chaged since Spring 2004), but that was really just the spark. And conversely, there will always be 'downers,' no matter where our academic programs or athletics teams are ranked.

 

When I started the RACC Rowdies in 1/05, Charlie Voelker told me that he'd support the group, with free pizza at first, if I got 12 students (12!!!) to the next game..I think I got about 15-20. Now we had the 1000+ seats of the student section about 2/3 full against last place Maine on the first day of the semester. During my frosh and soph (and even jr) years when I tried to get friends to go to games, their response was always "that teams just sucks." You don't hear that anymore! Now I have people who I don't know, but who've recognized me from games, ask me about game times, where/how to get tix, etc...especially underclassmen, showing that this reputation is already engrained by the time they get here. And, most importantly, this feeling has flowed to other areas of the University. Everyone and their brother on-campus knows that we have the top Nano program and one of the top Criminal Justice programs in the country. You hear it from students and staff alike all the time! Students are proud to say it.

 

Does that improve the student experience? Depends what you mean. I say yes because all of these growing attributes combined have, from what I have seen and experienced, increased the overall excitement among the student body. No, not many students are involved with Nano, but then again a large number of students never go to any athletic event in their years here. So what does an 'improved student experience' really mean?

 

Is there outrage among the student body that there's some talk that UAlbany might be 'passed over' as a flagship because of funding levels (outside of money for a brand new CC and business building) in the Governor's proposed budget? Other than for a few well-placed/informed students, I doubt it. As a student, their job is to take their 15-18 credits, work their 20 hours a week to pay for school, and try to maintain a social life. It's the job of the University administration, alumni, and community members to lobby for their school...and I think we've reacted strongly, and appropriately, to what we've found out over these past couple days.

 

So, to sum-up this story long post (haha)..yes, I have seen things change greatly (but there's always room for improvement!!) among the student body since 2004 and I don't think it's fair to students to have people far removed from them tell others how they think and feel.

 

I thank you for a good response to my questions and for not taking my post personally.

 

My next question echo's Boisydid's post:

 

How would you, as a recent grad, get the students involved in this issue?

[Dane96]

When we marched on the capital...it was TOTAL grassroots. Posters and the like were sent around...and the Student Government made these cool black t-shirts to handout- I think I still have mine somewhere.

 

Anyway, the key was that it was a SUNY-WIDE Student Affairs march...and thus there were plans in place.

 

I think for here, the SGO needs to work with the Bing SGO...and get together and basically request a public statement from Spitzer. Obviously, the only person on this board with the contacts to suggest this is GO Danes GO...since he has JUST graduated and may no people. That being said, I think he has done his fair share already to promote us.

 

I have a dumb question (since I clearly have not been on campus in a dorm room for quite some time)-- Do we have a campus TV show...a UA broadcast? That, to me, is the first place I go with this.

 

Second place-- The radio. The hottest show they have needs to step aside during the broadcast for just two minutes...to discuss and plant a seed

 

Believe me-- I learned from our march that the power of the student is more than the power of alumni.