The Budget Shaft

[Clickclack]

In my experience, young people are more apt to get behind a cause such as this. If we could somehow help organize at least 100 or so students/board members and get some media there it would do wonders for our cause. This needs to be done, I'm willing to help in any way I can I simply don't have the knowhow or the experience to orchestrate something of this nature. I gotta believe there are 150 students on campus who would be as concerned about this (UA being left behind as a flagship) as we are on this board.

 

Lets talk this out people, there could be something to this. We need to somehow force Gov. Spitzer to clearly state his intentions for the University at Albany.

[uofalbany]

How about we start a new thread and get this ball rolling

[UAlbany09]

I appreciate the pep talk UB Bull but forgive me if I question the motive. I feel like the beggar child being told "all will be well" by the rich aristocrat as he passes by me. In all honesty, being a flagship is a huge advantage even the blind can see.

 

I'm not so concerned with the "flagship" title. I'm concerned with everything that comes with it.... money, facilities, faculty and prestige. The NY Times said UB2020 would cost New York over $1 Billion. $1.7 Billion if my memory serves me correctly. There is only so much money to go around. The other campuses will be underfunded in order to transform Buffalo into Ann Arbor. Based on Spitzer's budget, UAlbany obviously has no champion in the legislature.

 

UAlbany already has the toughest time of the four university centers recruiting quality prospective undergraduates. UA will drop in the national rankings, as we will struggle even more to get qualified students. Bingo currently attracts the best students of the four centers. Their role will be the "William and Mary" type campus. Buffalo has a law school and medical school. Buffalo is D1A football and they play in a 31,000 seat stadium. They are getting another campus downtown. UB isn't exactly hiding the fact that they are the new golden child. Stony Brook will be receiving an enormous amount of funding. They're gloating as much as UB. The Daily News has run a number of stories about this windfall.

 

Why should a high school student sitting at home tonight choose UA over UB, SBU or Bingo? If Spitzer's plans go through, that student shouldn't choose UA. It hurts to say but I wouldn't do it.

 

Nano is great but for all the development of nano, has the undergraduate experience improved? No. At least give UA a damn football stadium. Athletics has given the students and alumni something to be proud of. This site wouldn't exist without it. Throw us a freakin' bone on your way out of the steak house.

 

I'm sorry but the truth hurts. I only hope we can stop this.

 

 

I don't share your pessimism. I think even with all that funding, the area around Buffalo is going to make a lot of students stay away. Then you have Binghamton which is also surronded by nothing except a small eyesore of a struggling depressed city. That keeps students away as well. Then you have Stony Brook which is right in Long Island where many SUNY students come from. Many of those prospective students want to go away for college so SBU is not going to be their choice. On the flip-side, there are many prospective students from Upstate areas who want nothing to do with Long Island or downstate. I think out of all the University centers, the Capital District and the city of Albany can provide the most for students. It's a college town with a youthful atmosphere that is very much alive compared to places like Binghamton, or Buffalo. I think with smart and creative marketing, and good management of the resources UAlbany does have, that it can really keep pulling in the quality students that it have been coming here the past few years. If the state gives us lemons, then we have to make lemonade. If we're going to get screwed by the state and kept from reaching this flagship status, then we need to find some other niche that will make the university relevant.

 

For example, taking the Nano College and making it operate in the undergraduate setting. Right now all the Nano College offers is graduate degrees. They need to start offering undergraduate degrees. I think the university can attract some great talent if you tell a high school student interested in cutting edge engineering and research that "hey, your classroom would be a 4.2 billion dollar complex that houses over 250 companies doing cutting edge research and development. You won't find anything like this anywhere in the world." Maybe a partnership with RPI where RPI students go to UAlbany for some classes, and UAlbany students go to RPI for classes. There is so much potential there to attract future engineers, scientists, business leaders who want to be apart of that next wave of innovation. This is a technology that has the potential for exploding the same way the personal computer exploded 30 years ago. Anyway, I just use that as one example, because I strongly believe in the field. The whole point is that the university can be relevant and can attract top students in spite of the state's efforts to screw us. Improvise, adapt, and overcome.

[UA66]

UA09, that is the most cogent comment on this issue that I have read on this forum topic to date. While I'm sympathetic and in agreement with all the concerns expressed on this topic, and with the strategies (personal cotacts, letter writing, organized student protests, flag-ship committee, etc.) I'm not as pessimistic as others either. While we are a state institution we shouldn't expect that state funding is the solution to all budget concerns. I don't know what percentage of the total UA budget is derived from state funds but I do know from friends on the faculty at Penn St. (as one example) that only about 20% of budget is supported by state funding. I seem to recall seeing similar data for other state universities around the country. Ultimately, UA needs to develop a similar ratio in state/non-state funding in order to grow. State funding, being that it is subject to the whims and winds of the political climate at any given time, will always be unreliable. True, flagship status can be helpful in attracting non-state funds but there are many institutions out there who have built up huge fiscal resources without benefit of such status. I believe President Hall had us on the right track to a build similar resource base. His loss was immense but not insurmountable. The combination of strong and highly touted programs and aggressive resource development will ultimately be the solution to UA's growth and stability. So, while the immediate concern of improving the state allocation for UA is paramount, let's not over-react with pessimism and consume all energies at the expense of a longer term efforts, i.e. demanding (and monitoring) strong leadership at UA, promoting its strengths and programs via whatever opportunities present themselves (even casual conversations with the uninformed), encouraging alumni support, and perhaps even identfying potential resources.

[Dane96]

His post was interesting, but misguided IMHO. There are serious issues plaguing Albany...but they are not based on our undergraduate (or lack thereof) programs. They run much deeper.

 

1. SUNY is NOT run like other state institutions. Basically, the schools cannot raise, use, borrow, or make independent decisions like other state schools such as Penn State. Herein lies the problem: LACK OF FUNDING FROM THE STATE...and also LACK OF CONTROL. While Spitzer is right that SUNY must change...his idea of two flagships is a misguided attempt to correct a severe issue. Attacking SUNY CENTRAL is actually the way to go. Now SUNY CENTRAL SHOULD HAVE A SAY ON PROGRAMS OFFERED BY EACH SCHOOL...but funding should be a bit different. To grow Albany, we are actually constricted by the State...yet at the same time receive limited funding from to accomplish goals. Double whammy.

 

2. IF SUNY allows two flagships, the other two, Binghamton and Albany, will suffer from the in-state/out-state ratio you speak of. I did not apply to Grand Valley State or Central Michigan-- I did apply to Michigan. People don't apply to directionals or the Kent State's of the world if you are from out of state. That, like you mention, is where the money comes in from. Kids don't clamor to go to FIU or FAU. They do want to go to UF or FSU. You de-flagship Albany...and you are now Cal State Northridge...NOT BERKELEY.

 

3. UA66 talks about Dr. Hall. His loss IS insurmountable in a way. Dr. Hall was unique because he was liked by many...and had credentials to back it up. Generally admins like Dr. Hall are at the Ohio States, Harvards, Penn States, etc. We actually had the TOP MID-MAJOR administrator if you want to compare it to sports. People like Dr. Hall are not readily available to schools. They are usually sitting Presidents that do not leave their plush jobs. One of our search problems is that we are looking for a Dr. Hall because we are spoiled. I personally think you are on point in the fact that it is not insurmountable, however the caliber of Dr. Hall will likely NOT be replicated at our University. That is fine...just get me a hungry President that wants to stay for five years plus...and has the guts to fight SUNY Central and the bueracracy.

 

4. The demand for strong leadership, promotion of strengths and programs, and the id of resources all come at the whim of SUNY CENTRAL. We need to step up and demand those from them. With a Governor who is fighting with Bruno, the stall to hire a Chancellor has led to us not getting a President. IT is cyclical in effect.

 

5. UA09, while entitled to his opinion, is completely off on the Graduate vs. Undergraduate argument. WE ARE PRECISELY IN THE POSITION WE ARE IN BECAUSE OUR GRADUATE PROGRAMS ARE WEAK COMPARED TO OUR CONTEMPORARIES. For example, Binghamton is known for their Engineering grad program and is adding a law school. Buffalo has law and medicine, and are building a pharmacy school and engineering. Stony Brook has the hospital, health services, and now will be moving forward with Nuclear research with Brookhaven.

 

Albany is known for Education and the Public Policy program, which includes criminal justice. As a person who was in the Public Policy program, I can confirm how good it is. However, in the scheme of things...in the BIG PICTURE...these programs DO NOT BRING IN RESEARCH DOLLARS IN THE WAY THE ONES AT BING, STONY BROOK, and BUFFALO DO.

 

This has a three-fold damper on our school- one, it is hard for the development people to raise money from the same pool that our brethren dive into because we are considered Tier 2...and not an AAU school; and 2) Students choose to go elsewhere...particularly out of state students because we are viewed as a tier 2 school; and 3) SUNY CENTRAL does not take our funding as seriously.

 

WE NEED TO BECOME AN AAU school...and the only way to do so is equal funding from SUNY. We cannot grow when we get 400m and Buffalo and Stony Brook get 750 and 800m respectively. For the record, a lot of that funding goes to the programs spoken to above.

 

So in fact, to UA09's point, WE ACTUALLY NEED TO GROW OUR GRADUATE PROGRAMS BEYOND NANOTECH...a still EMERGING FIELD. Growth of a true Masters and Doctoral program that is strong enough to attain AAU status goes beyond our resting on the laurels provided by Education and Rockefeller...and the emerging NANOTECH program. GeNySIS is NOT THE WAY TO DO IT...that is straight research...much like the Harvard Research program at Mass General Hospital.

 

We need to get Engineering, Physics, etc...the sciences...up to PAR with our contemporaries. We need to continue to grow the Nanotech, Rockefeller, and Education programs. We need to fund our school of Public Health...and we need to get a BUSINESS SCHOOL so we can move up the MBA latter of prominence.

 

IN short, our Graduate programs must grow for us to be considered a flagship. Our undergraduate programs are just fine. Adding Nanotech could be exciting...but is not glaring-- Nanotech research is generally an advanced study...not an undergraduate one. I am not saying it wouldnt hurt to do as UA09 suggests, but it is not an immediate need. A broad based program of graduate programs, however, is.

 

Finally, a large proportion of Buffalo's student body comes from Long Island and Downstate, plus Westchester and Rockland. Ever been to Tallahassee? Makes Buffalo look safe and like a metropolis. Complete crap hole where Florida State is located. Trust me, if a kid goes from Phlly to Happy Valley or Miami, Boca, and the majority of the E. Coast of Florida to Gainsville (which is up in the middle of NOWHERE), they will head to Buffalo if it is the "UCLA of the EAST."

 

For the record, on my recruiting trip to Buffalo in 1991, I was told "we want to be the UCLA of the EAST...look at this campus." That, was one of the reasons behind this downstater originally choosing Buffalo. You could tell it was a big school like the other flagships I visited out of state.

[alum73]

Another thing that holds us back is we have, by far, the smallest campus of the university centers. I was hoping that we would acquire some of the Harriman campus when the state offices move out.

[ATL_DANE]

I agree with Dane96.

 

I don't want to be pessimistic... but this is a major issue for the future of UA. It's not going to be noticeable this year or maybe next but if Spitzer's 2 flagship plan is implemented it will be very noticeable over 10 years.

 

Many of us on this board are trying our best to stop this plan or at least have Spitzer include UA as a flagship. Do I think that will happen? No. I still have to try. I don't want to spend my weekend on this crap but it's too important not to. Spitzer and Hayden made up their minds on this and short of Bruno getting involved, there is no stopping the plan. New York needs flagship universities (I agree) but they feel they only have the funds to support 2 at the moment, and so UA will have to wait.

 

You can disagree with me. I don't pretend to know all the answers. My view is that there are kids who have the resume to get into a flagship like Virginia, Michigan or UCLA. Then there are the kids who have to apply to the directionals or other suffix schools. Not to call any school out but come on! You know who I'm talking about. Does a kid who can get into Berkley really apply to Cal State? Does a kid who can get into Michigan want to go to Central Michigan? Getting into U of Florida is better than getting into Harvard for a lot of families in the Sunshine State. Can you say that about Central Florida? Georgia kids dream of going to Athens and being a bulldog. How many are dreaming about going to Kennesaw? Yeah, a few might want to be close to home or have some personal reason to do so but generally the answer is 'no'.

[ATL_DANE]

From UB's homepage.

 

----------------------------------

 

Spitzer endorses UB 2020

 

Designates UB as a SUNY flagship institution

 

By SUE WUETCHER

Reporter Editor

 

Gov. Eliot Spitzer yesterday endorsed UB 2020, the university's strategic plan designed to transform UB into a model 21st century public research university.

 

President John B. Simpson (left) and David Dunn, vice president for health sciences, take questions from journalists at a press conference following Gov. Eliot Spitzer's State of the State address.

 

Spitzer, in his second annual State of the State address, also designated UB as a flagship institution of the SUNY system and proposed the development of a new downtown campus designed specifically for health sciences units that would be home to more than 7,000 faculty staff and students.

 

"We will move forward on the University at Buffalo's 2020 expansion as a centerpiece of our strategy to reinvigorate the economy of Western New York," Spitzer said in his address in Albany. "UB will become an economic engine for Buffalo, and a flagship institution for a world-class, public university system."

 

Spitzer noted that UB's total student population will grow from 29,000 to almost 41,000, and more than 7,000 students, faculty and staff will work and study on a new downtown campus for medicine and health sciences.

 

The governor's public support of UB 2020 comes on the heels of efforts by President John B. Simpson, UB Council Chair Jeremy M. Jacobs and other UB administrators to emphasize to the governor and his senior staff the message that a thriving UB is the best agent for the economic revitalization of Western New York.

 

Spitzer's remarks in the State of the State address outline "a bold investment for the State of New York that will help the University at Buffalo achieve the goals we have set forth for ourselves with UB 2020," Simpson said at a press conference held in Capen Hall shortly after the governor's address.

 

"This investment can bring about a major transformation, not only here at UB, but I think more broadly within our community because of the important role-the significant role-that the university has in the Western New York community," Simpson said. "It will lead to the creation of the three vibrant campuses of UB that we've been discussing now for many months. I'm genuinely thankful for the governor's leadership in getting to this point. He should know that the entire university is ready to respond in line with the vision he has laid out today."

 

Simpson said the governor's recognition of UB "is really a recognition of the wonderful faculty and staff and students who we have here. They are UB."

 

"They are as committed as I am to building a great partnership between our university and our community, a partnership that can help produce an era of economic recovery in Western New York and contribute, therefore, to a positive way to a bright future for all our children," he said.

 

Moreover, nearly 4,000 individuals have joined UB Believers, the broad-based advocacy group that has been created to help support UB 2020, Simpson noted. "We also asked the governor to believe in UB, and he has now responded with an equally strong commitment. We are grateful that he has become such a big UB Believer," he said.

 

Simpson added that UB 2020 also has the "unanimous and strong support" of the Western New York legislative delegation.

 

In proposing a new downtown campus for the health sciences, Spitzer "has called for a very bold vision of how our downtown presence might look," Simpson pointed out. The governor had asked UB administrators months ago to "think boldly" about the future of the university and that a number of scenarios had been drawn up, including further developing UB's downtown presence into a biomedical sciences/health sciences campus, Simpson explained.

 

"We put together ideas about how this might occur, recognizing that we are in the midst of a long-term capital master planning process," he said, calling the scenarios "ideas—not firm plans that we need to put in place."

 

"This was something that the governor found appealing, that the governor endorses. I think it's something's that very good for the city and very good for the community as well as potentially very good for the university," he said.

 

How this all plays out will depend, in part, upon how the Legislature reacts to funding it, he said.

 

"It's a very long-term process, and there are a whole host of variables in place, including our planning process, that will determine how this will be manifest," he said. "Most importantly, I find it very exciting that the governor is interested in the kinds of things we can potentially do by a model such as this."

 

David L. Dunn, vice president for health sciences, said locating 7,000 faculty, staff and students downtown was "doable."

 

UB already is purchasing properties downtown, and has expanded the Center of Excellence in Bioinformatics and Life Sciences on the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus, Dunn said. "We have great relationships with Hauptman-Woodward (Medical Research Institute) and Roswell (Park Cancer Institute) and other partnerships" he added. "Certainly with the reconfiguration in health care being proposed here by the Department of Health, there many things intersecting simultaneously, all of which are positive."

 

Simpson said he was not worried about UB receiving specific funding for UB 2020 in this year's state capital budget.

 

"What we have in UB 2020 is a long-term process," he said. "We are changing the way in which we think about the university's future and the way in which we relate to the State of New York that goes beyond the annual budget process into thinking over the long-term about what the university can be," he said. "And so what happens from year to year may be less important than the clear acknowledgment by the governor that what he is interested in supporting is the long-term UB 2020 vision," he said. "That makes for a very different conversation that we've had in the past."

 

Simpson noted that Western New York seems to be a place where plans frequently are made, but end up sitting on a shelf.

 

"In the case of UB, we have a plan, we are implementing it and now we have a critically important recognition of this and potential support by our colleagues in Albany as said by the governor in his State of the State address," he said. "Today is a day to be very excited, as I am, and to be very hopeful about the future of UB, and therefore about the future of Western New York."

 

The plan for higher education that Spitzer outlined in the State of the State address springs from recommendations released last month by the New York State Commission on Higher Education.

[purplehaze]

Good call GDG.

 

I just got off the phone for nearly 10 minutes with Farley's office. They are not happy... Additionally, I have spoken with Bruno, Silver, and Canestrari's office.

 

People remember, it is not just athletics but also our business school that got the shaft. THIS WAS AN IMPORTANT PRIORITY!

Farley should be helpful--he will have a tough re-election race vs. Paul Tonka, who would be responsive as well

[ATL_DANE]

Great blog uofalbany. Summarizes the issue well. If anyone on this board hasn't checked his blog out, you should do so. Lots of quotes from the news and politicians. He even has all the funding numbers in black and white for all to see. Judge for yourself if this issue is as big as many think.

 

Good job.

 

http://uofalbany.blogspot.com/

[danefan]

I have made an attempt to start a "chain email" to all UAlbany students and alumns. I've sent it to about 20 people from my address book who graduated from UAlbany. Hopefully they will pass it along to those they know and so on and so on.

 

Please take a second to copy the following email and send it to all UAlbany Students and Alumns you know. Feel free to change anything you want.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT....DO NOT DELETE. Take a few seconds to read and pass this along!

 

Check out the following article on what's going on with the New York budget and how UAlbany is getting passed over by by Buffalo and Stony Brook in being designated as a "flagship" university in the SUNY system.

 

http://uofalbany.blogspot.com/2008/01/suny...-of-albany.html

 

If the budget passes its pretty clear that UAlbany will become a second-tier university behind Stony Brook and Buffalo. This effects all alumns greatly. Would you want your degree to be from Michigan or Grand Valley State? From Georgia or from Kennesaw State? That's what is going to happen here. Replace Michigan with Stony Brook and Grand Valley State with UAlbany. Our degrees will become second-tier!

 

This is very important for all aspects of college life - academics, athletics, social activities, etc.... It will effect all state funding!

 

Please take the 1/2 hour to read and write an email or letter to the important people who are making this decision. All the info is on the blog.

 

This is very important. PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG TO ALL UALBANY STUDENTS AND ALUMNS who you know. Spreading the word on this issue is very important!

 

http://uofalbany.blogspot.com/2008/01/suny...-of-albany.html

 

Thanks

[uofalbany]

Thanks Atl Dane, I appreciate the comments.

Great job stepping up on this matter for you as well.

 

Danefan, great idea. I've just sent that email to my UAlbany alum contacts. Hopefully, that'll get 1000's of alum reaching out to those contact in the NYS government.

[ATL_DANE]

Binghamton Responds.

 

This is the first response to the flagship issue out of Binghamton. If only UA had a president to join De Fleur in fighting this. Sounds like De Fleur is going to the mat on this one, AS SHE SHOULD!

 

 

Quote from Binghamton Pipe Dream (College Paper)

 

The SUNY system could soon see the introduction of billions of dollars and 2,000 new full-time professors and a flagship college — most likely not Binghamton University — to New York state’s public colleges if suggestions made by a state commission last month are accepted.

 

.....

 

DeFleur, however, spoke against the concept of designating specific schools “flagships” at a Jan. 15 University Forum held in Lecture Hall 1.

 

“It's a distinction that doesn't really serve anyone well,” she said. ”… We should not be singled out with negative implications I have been very passionate about that.”

 

In a statement made to Pipe Dream, DeFleur emphasized that the report was only preliminary, and that the commission would continue their work throughout the semester.

 

“The commission's work is not done,” DeFleur said. “We will continue to listen, hold public hearings and receive additional information and submit our final report to Governor Spitzer on or before June 1, 2008.”

 

http://www.bupipedream.com/pipeline_web/display_article.php?id=6805

[scrabbleship]

I have made an attempt to start a "chain email" to all UAlbany students and alumns. I've sent it to about 20 people from my address book who graduated from UAlbany. Hopefully they will pass it along to those they know and so on and so on.

 

Can Facebooking this count too? I posted it to my profile and forwarded it in message from to assorted alumni and current students.

[ATL_DANE]

Oh Yeah... Binghamton is pissed. Here's their paper's commentary on the topic.

 

-------------------------------------------

 

A small section on the article...

 

This may be the Ivy of the SUNYs, but Binghamton University was certainly slapped across the face over the winter break by Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

 

His proposal for revamping the SUNY system included establishing a flagship campus, specifically mentioning the universities at Stony Brook and Buffalo as the two candidates, a blow that has undoubtedly broken BU President Lois B. DeFleur’s heart, turning her red with a mixture of embarrassment and frustration.

 

After all, touting the campus as the Best Buy or Most Self-Aware in the Northeast will pale in comparison to being SUNY’s College on a Hill.

 

“It’s a distinction that doesn’t really serve anyone well,” the president noted at the Student-Faculty town hall meeting this month.

 

And here, on this rare occasion, we must agree with our president.

 

 

http://www.bupipedream.com/pipeline_web/display_article.php?id=6843