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Really...ok...please explain the departures that have lead to this position; watching your posts for the past year...you seem to be flip-flopping now.

 

Al Turley and Josh Martin arguably are the only departure that had a major effect on this team. Neither departure could be forseen or protected against...and frankly, looks like Al made a major mistake as I dont see him playing major college football like his mom wanted him to.

 

Brett Gifford isnt in a bust spotlight if Al is here.

 

Will Harris and Tim Ambrose aren't recruiting busts...they are busts of epic proportions because of their own mental issues.

 

Not flip flopping at all...bottom line, after the NCAA years we came away with what? Mistakes were made in talent evaluation...I'll point you to the number of kids that left and are not/did not even play D1 ball...Anderson, Yocum, Moores, Knight. I know the departure of Turley was unexpected and it happens. But you can't explain away all of the departures.

 

Fact of the matter is a number of kids got D1 scholarships at this programs peak that let's face it...were not D1 players.

 

I also find it disingenuous to say that guys like Harris have only themselves to blame...that it's their own mental issues. I like Brown and I think he'll turn it around, I continue to have faith in him. But at the end of the day the fact that he built the team around those two is blame ONLY HE SHOULD/NEEDS TO SHOULDER. Just if had they worked out great, he would get the credit, as he should.

 

Looking at the last recruiting class, and the lessons I think many of us learned just watching what transpired let alone him recruiting/coaching. I think to his credit he's going back to recruiting the kids that made him successful. I really like the last recruiting class and can't wait to see who he brings in with the three scholarships he has at his disposal. I'm willing to bet they will be a couple of tough SOB's.

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Hate to be a debbie downer, but we still don't know if all the freshmen will be back next year either.

 

I also hate bringing this point up, but last year we were 11-6 and off to the best start in program history. This was with ambrose and harris in the starting lineups. With raffa runing the point. Yes I know people have said raffa demand this and that and he didn't get along with his teammates, but when he went down the whole team did as well winning only 4 more games after that. How about adding raffa to the list of turley and martin.

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I'm sorry click...you are flip-flopping based on your posts on the subject in the past.

 

Turley- family pressure

 

Martin- didnt follow rules

 

Ross- no discussion required.

 

Anderson- injuries (kid was one of the best players in Ohio...no one could have forseen this)

 

Moores- kid transferred from three different schools-- Maybe coach's mistake for taking a flyer on him...but not a big deal IMHO...not every schollie will pan out.

 

Yocum- wanted to stay...Mom and Dad wanted him to start and play alot as a frosh. Mom and Dad were very vocal with this and from what I understand from former players...not coaches...this played heavily in his transfer. I think he could have played more as a frosh, but like I said, maybe Coach has learned because he leaned on the frosh this year. I think Mike was a guy who would have been a good role DI kid....an 8th/9th man.

 

As King said...the only losses that counted in my opinion are Turley and Martin...and frankly, maybe the staff could have seen the Martin one coming via interviews with him on the recruiting trial...but that is a stretch IMHO.

You have discussed the same ad nauseum...

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Not flip flopping at all...bottom line, after the NCAA years we came away with what? Mistakes were made in talent evaluation...I'll point you to the number of kids that left and are not/did not even play D1 ball...Anderson, Yocum, Moores, Knight. I know the departure of Turley was unexpected and it happens. But you can't explain away all of the departures.

 

Fact of the matter is a number of kids got D1 scholarships at this programs peak that let's face it...were not D1 players.

 

I also find it disingenuous to say that guys like Harris have only themselves to blame...that it's their own mental issues. I like Brown and I think he'll turn it around, I continue to have faith in him. But at the end of the day the fact that he built the team around those two is blame ONLY HE SHOULD/NEEDS TO SHOULDER. Just if had they worked out great, he would get the credit, as he should.

 

Looking at the last recruiting class, and the lessons I think many of us learned just watching what transpired let alone him recruiting/coaching. I think to his credit he's going back to recruiting the kids that made him successful. I really like the last recruiting class and can't wait to see who he brings in with the three scholarships he has at his disposal. I'm willing to bet they will be a couple of tough SOB's.

 

Please excuse me if I'm wrong but didn't those guys commit before the the tourney appearances. What would be considered the first recruiting class to commit after the first AE championship?

 

Hate to be a debbie downer, but we still don't know if all the freshmen will be back next year either.

 

I also hate bringing this point up, but last year we were 11-6 and off to the best start in program history. This was with ambrose and harris in the starting lineups. With raffa runing the point. Yes I know people have said raffa demand this and that and he didn't get along with his teammates, but when he went down the whole team did as well winning only 4 more games after that. How about adding raffa to the list of turley and martin.

 

I agree with this. Kid had talent but a poor attitude that effected his play on the court. I think it's the three of them leaving that left this void between upperclassmen and the FR/SR group. In my opinion, those three are recruiting mistakes. I'm sure it is VERY hard to do but you have to be able to estimate a players commitment to basketball (Turley), a players ability to get good grades (Martin) and if they will be a bad teammate or have an attitude problem (Raffa). In my opinion, Ambrose, Harris, McRae and Johnson are all mistakes as well since none of them lived up to expectations. As clickclack pointed out, if all these players did pan out then Brown is a genius recruiter so when they don't work out he needs to take the blame. Sure, most of this is unforeseen stuff and very hard to predict but still these are failures. This is it for Brown. The three scholarships that he has available are probably the most important selections of his coaching career. If he can turn this around it would be huge for his career, if he doesn't then it will be tough for him to find a good D1 job because people, not you or I because we know differently, will say that he got lucky with one recruit and made the tourney twice and then has done nothing. I like Brown a lot and think he will turn it around but this is a very important offseason for him and the program.

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Why is it that when martin had disciplinary issues he was kicked off the team, but when mcrae had disciplinary issues he was only suspended and given another chance.

 

Just curious. Was martins offense a lot worse? I mean he didn't have any run ins with the law or anything. If the kid is doing well in school shouldn't he have been given another chance? He might have and screwed that up, but I don't know.

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Dont you think your question answered your question?

 

I dont know the answer...but the Athletic Director has to approve all scholarships given and taken...so...he must have concurred.

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Think that having two (maybe three if you count Giff...and I dont) players who were supposed to be the best on the floor and leading the team...yet sucking the fattie had anything to do with that?

 

Let's see, BU...say goodbye to John Holland and Corey Lowe...now show me what you got.

 

Difference between those two scenarios is that BU had some more "seasoned" depth in the guard and forward spots. Towards the end of the year there was a rotation...and I think most know what the rotation is next year (who starts is a different story).

 

Holland is a junior.

 

Wolff must be pissed seeing chambers use his guys to get to the finals and possibly the ncaas

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What does Holland being a Junior have anything to do with it.

 

Holland has been the top 2 player on that team since his freshman year. He is supposed to be the man and a leader. That was my point.

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After reading this thread about recruiting and seeing Reid Anderson's name it made me think how unlucky UA and CB are with kids from Ohio.

 

Anderson hurt or sick the entire time he was here.

 

Billy Allen arrives and has major back surgery

 

Logan Aronhalt arrives and has two foot surgeries

 

If those three guys stayed healthy the whole situation might be different.

 

Add to the Ohio kids the fact that Louis Barazza (a 50% 3pfg shooter in JC) was hurt or sick most of last season and missed this season and Raffa going down at the end of last year and it makes you wonder what might have been.

 

One of our major weaknesses the past 2 seasons has been perimeter shooting and who was suppose to supply that....

 

Barazza

Raffa

Allen

Aronhalt

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I'm sorry click...you are flip-flopping based on your posts on the subject in the past.

 

Turley- family pressure

 

Martin- didnt follow rules

 

Ross- no discussion required.

 

Anderson- injuries (kid was one of the best players in Ohio...no one could have forseen this)

 

Moores- kid transferred from three different schools-- Maybe coach's mistake for taking a flyer on him...but not a big deal IMHO...not every schollie will pan out.

 

Yocum- wanted to stay...Mom and Dad wanted him to start and play alot as a frosh. Mom and Dad were very vocal with this and from what I understand from former players...not coaches...this played heavily in his transfer. I think he could have played more as a frosh, but like I said, maybe Coach has learned because he leaned on the frosh this year. I think Mike was a guy who would have been a good role DI kid....an 8th/9th man.

 

As King said...the only losses that counted in my opinion are Turley and Martin...and frankly, maybe the staff could have seen the Martin one coming via interviews with him on the recruiting trial...but that is a stretch IMHO.

You have discussed the same ad nauseum...

 

I'll pose this question to you and hang up and listen...name a recruit of any consequence to this program that we've gotten in the last 4 or 5 years...that is a recruit that was brought in and stayed in the program all the way through and had some kind of significant impact on the program.

 

Either we are the ABSOLUTE UNLUCKIEST TEAM ON THE PLANET in regards to injuries, recruiting to many kids that live and die by what their mother says...Glanton, Turley, Yocum or there are legitimate concerns that really need to be looked at.

 

I know that there are at times legitimate family issues (Glanton), I know that certain kids don't hold themselves accountable to do the necessary work (Martin). I know recruiting is a crap shoot not all kids pan out...but you can't swing and miss for 3 years straight...you simply CAN'T!

 

The current crop of kids is very very promising and I hear they should stay intact...to address an earlier post of how do we know who's gonna stick around. Whatever the reason may be...we gotta start turning the tide on the recruiting trail. Where we are today is a direct correlations of our failings there (recruiting trail).

 

I believe we are on our way...I really do. In coach I trust! I trust that he's learned some things over the last few years that will serve him very well on the recruiting trail this spring and in the future.

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So let me get this straight...your umpteen posts are the subject are now changed as of today? Same with the blog posts? If so, hey...you have a right to your opinion and I respect that.

 

Aside from that, and most important, you cannot ignore the fact that three players-- Glanton, Turley and Yocum-- had strong family influences in their decision. Ignoring that is ignoring the truth.

 

Ignoring that Raffa's father, high school coach and prep school coach according to news accounts, urged him to stay at Albany (and that Coach publicly and privately implored him to stay) is simply ignoring the truth. Sadly, he had someone else in his ear that he listened to.

 

Those are life changes...not recruiting issues. Personally, I think the Turley situation was the worst of the bunch..he is the biggest loser in all of this....and you saw Glanton's public response...great kid who wanted to be home.

 

The real issues to me are Josh Martin and Tim Ambrose-- could you have known Josh would be a discplinary issue? Maybe...just maybe. With Ambrose, I think Coach was trying to strike Jamar gold. People forget Jamar was inconsistent, couldn't play defense and played with reckless abandon. Difference between he and Ambrose is that Jamar was a sponge...who was maliable; Tim is not. BOTH WER RISKS...WITH HIGH REWARD VALUE. I will take the 50% risk anytime...those are our current odds/production on the two. That you can blame Coach on...but if you are going to blame him...you have to also praise him for the Jamar risk-win. Frankly, I think Tim has more NATURAL talent than Jamar; Jamar just understood the game.

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Hang on DRG...just one update to what you wrote:

 

Josh Martin actually had good grades from what I understand (close to a 3.0)...it was more discipline.

 

My bad. Still, a kid who is not disciplined enough should not be recruited. Waste of a scholarship and waste of a season that someone else could have developed.

 

I don't know. I just feel like the recruiting has not been good enough lately. One kid here or there having special issues and leaving or getting hurt or whatever is OK but several years and a list that long is poor recruiting.

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So let me get this straight...your umpteen posts are the subject are now changed as of today? Same with the blog posts? If so, hey...you have a right to your opinion and I respect that.

 

Aside from that, and most important, you cannot ignore the fact that three players-- Glanton, Turley and Yocum-- had strong family influences in their decision. Ignoring that is ignoring the truth.

 

Ignoring that Raffa's father, high school coach and prep school coach according to news accounts, urged him to stay at Albany (and that Coach publicly and privately implored him to stay) is simply ignoring the truth. Sadly, he had someone else in his ear that he listened to.

 

Those are life changes...not recruiting issues. Personally, I think the Turley situation was the worst of the bunch..he is the biggest loser in all of this....and you saw Glanton's public response...great kid who wanted to be home.

 

The real issues to me are Josh Martin and Tim Ambrose-- could you have known Josh would be a discplinary issue? Maybe...just maybe. With Ambrose, I think Coach was trying to strike Jamar gold. People forget Jamar was inconsistent, couldn't play defense and played with reckless abandon. Difference between he and Ambrose is that Jamar was a sponge...who was maliable; Tim is not. BOTH WER RISKS...WITH HIGH REWARD VALUE. I will take the 50% risk anytime...those are our current odds/production on the two. That you can blame Coach on...but if you are going to blame him...you have to also praise him for the Jamar risk-win. Frankly, I think Tim has more NATURAL talent than Jamar; Jamar just understood the game.

 

All well and good...still waiting on the answer posed in paragraph number one of my previous post...

 

No, nothing has changed, I understand that things didn't work out. I'm looking back and doing a bit of after-action review of the last few years. What could we have done differently to avoid the disaster that was this season. I'm big on learning from past mistakes, unless you think no mistakes were made.

 

I think as die-hard fans it's important to balance optimism and our loyalty to the coaching staff/program with some semblance of objectivity and logical reasoning.

 

It's very easy to be simply a shill for the program...something I refuse to do. I have repeatedly stood up for the coaching staff and this program on the TU blogs etc...I don't need any praise for it, nor do I need someone to pin a rose on my nose for it. That doesn't mean though that we can't/should look back at where we failed and what we can do differently.

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Brian Connelly.

 

And don't give me stats-- that kid was a huge contributor...one who probably would have been much better but for the diabetes.

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