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Could be in for a tough 16-17 season!

 

A lot can happen between now and then but...yeah, at this point in time not sure how steep the cliff is going to be after next year. There is very little 4 year core talent being developed. Baker was a pretty big loss in that regard.

 

I'm not as worried about 16-17 even without new additions. If our starting five is Tre Green (assuming he stays) Cremo, Dallas, Mike Rowley and Richard Peters I'll take that.

 

 

A lot can happen between now and then...so yeah, probably not worth the brain strain at this point to even project out. However, since you bring him up, I've seen on a few occasion glimpses of solid play from Tre, wonder what type of player he can be.

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I think we actually have just two scholarships available..right?   2 opening up from Rowley and Ede departing..plus 3 from Baker, Wells and Twyman transferring..gives us 5 opening up.   Already h

Yeah, no, the senility is on my end. As DP has so graciously pointed out it is indeed Twyman and not McKay.   I think my brain like to rearrange letters so I somehow came up with McKay in my head..

Projected lineup is Singletary, Sanders, Hooley, Rowley, Peters?

I'd be more concerned with the transfers if it was something unique to the program and/or Coach Brown. It's not fun..but it's pervasive throughout DI men's basketball. Goodman's ESPN list has nearly 500 players transferring already.

 

The overwhelming majority of our transfers end up at a lower-level..suggesting playing time was the main issue. The outliers (ex. Baker and Raffa) have tended to be offensive-minded players who seem (my speculation) to want a much bigger role and want it now. That's been infrequent and probably isn't too surprising under a coach who focuses on defense and controlling tempo. And I think Coach Brown has admitted he's tough to play for..not everyone can handle that.

People make such a big deal of kids transferring, but they owe nothing to coaches or the school. To me there's more of a problem with coaches jumping ship than players transferring.

 

ex. Bobby Hurley. Yeah I'm going to stay and sign an extension! Eh nah the ASU job opened up, peace.

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No one is faulting a kid for transferring. But the reality is, no one likes transfers. No one likes to lose talents/assets. Student athletes are free to do whatever they would like - they don't owe the school anything, but we often question their reasoning, especially when they are renouncing their right to play a year of basketball.

 

I think it's more of a frustration when a lot of a coach's planning is contingent upon having certain guys in certain spots, and then poof - it's altered. Same thing is applicable to coaches. A lot of the times when coaches transfer though its for higher profile/higher paying jobs. So it isn't really comparable. If a coach changed jobs, and had to sit at home for a year and not coach, we would all question his decision.

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A kid is recruited by a coach and tells them how great the university is and says he can do this and that for them and then poof the coach is gone.

 

Yes losing transfers sucks, but it is what it is. No sense in getting frustrated. Just move on. If the kid wants to sit out a year it's their decision. Like I said in an earlier post you only have four years to play. Sitting out a year at a new school doesn't mean he'll lose a year. Staying at a program not getting the amount of PT they want is a losing a year. Sometimes you have to look out for number one...that's yourself.

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No one is faulting a kid for transferring. But the reality is, no one likes transfers. No one likes to lose talents/assets. Student athletes are free to do whatever they would like - they don't owe the school anything, but we often question their reasoning, especially when they are renouncing their right to play a year of basketball.

 

I think it's more of a frustration when a lot of a coach's planning is contingent upon having certain guys in certain spots, and then poof - it's altered. Same thing is applicable to coaches. A lot of the times when coaches transfer though its for higher profile/higher paying jobs. So it isn't really comparable. If a coach changed jobs, and had to sit at home for a year and not coach, we would all question his decision.

 

This is why the good ones (coaches), know how to manage this CRITICAL part of the job. We've been fortunate to have a guy who regardless of what happens over the last few years especially, identifies pieces and pulls them together to make a team that's gone three straight...

 

I may gripe about to many JUCO's or this or that but the bottom line is proof is in the pudding...I know it may not always be that way, at some point we'll have a down cycle but so far things are going well. We can split this hair or that hair but at this point I think Brown has shown that he knows what he's doing...just saying. Sure, as a fan, I want more 4 year kids to follow and I hope he continues what he's always done, field that type of core that grows up in the program and then gets clean talented JC kids if he thinks they are missing pieces.

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A kid is recruited by a coach and tells them how great the university is and says he can do this and that for them and then poof the coach is gone.

 

Yes losing transfers sucks, but it is what it is. No sense in getting frustrated. Just move on. If the kid wants to sit out a year it's their decision. Like I said in an earlier post you only have four years to play. Sitting out a year at a new school doesn't mean he'll lose a year. Staying at a program not getting the amount of PT they want is a losing a year.

 

It's a discussion board. If we don't talk about things like this, there's no point in having one lol... No one is losing sleep because Wheeler Baker is leaving the program (aside from Coach, maybe). Just food for conversation.

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A kid is recruited by a coach and tells them how great the university is and says he can do this and that for them and then poof the coach is gone.

 

Yes losing transfers sucks, but it is what it is. No sense in getting frustrated. Just move on. If the kid wants to sit out a year it's their decision. Like I said in an earlier post you only have four years to play. Sitting out a year at a new school doesn't mean he'll lose a year. Staying at a program not getting the amount of PT they want is a losing a year.

 

It's a discussion board. If we don't talk about things like this, there's no point in having one lol... No one is losing sleep because Wheeler Baker is leaving the program (aside from Coach, maybe). Just food for conversation.

 

Absolutely. I was more pointing out that there is a double standard with coaches leaving and players leaving.

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A kid is recruited by a coach and tells them how great the university is and says he can do this and that for them and then poof the coach is gone.

 

Yes losing transfers sucks, but it is what it is. No sense in getting frustrated. Just move on. If the kid wants to sit out a year it's their decision. Like I said in an earlier post you only have four years to play. Sitting out a year at a new school doesn't mean he'll lose a year. Staying at a program not getting the amount of PT they want is a losing a year.

 

It's a discussion board. If we don't talk about things like this, there's no point in having one lol... No one is losing sleep because Wheeler Baker is leaving the program (aside from Coach, maybe). Just food for conversation.

 

Absolutely. I was more pointing out that there is a double standard with coaches leaving and players leaving.

 

 

Well, I disagree with you on that. The decision a student athlete, often a teenager makes, with that of a grown man/woman is dramatically different. At the D1 level, coaches have a finite income generation period. Most make fairly decent money, but they have a small window to provide for themselves and/or their family. Not everyone is Bobby Knight or Doc Sauers/Coach Ford. Making a jump to a higher paying job, perhaps with more years guaranteed is very different than a player transferring for a variety of reasons. Sure, jumping to a better conference or better opportunity in terms of team winning chances or exposure is perhaps the same, but factor in the magnitude of a coaches job transfer, and you can see the decisions are apples and oranges. Relocation of a whole family (kids switching schools, spouse getting new job etc).

 

There's call it 300 +/- head coaching positions in D1. There's 4500 spots or so for players (15 per team). When a coaching opportunity comes around, especially for significantly more money, a coach needs to jump on it. Head coaching jobs, let alone high profile ones very rarely open. I would also venture to say that coaching is far more complicated and stressful - more hours, significant time away from the family, recruiting trips (to Australia) etc.

 

Coaches tend to move laterally or vertically. Players often make irrational decisions and end up laterally or moving down a ring on the belt.

 

 

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i get that you cant compare the two exactly. its the same thing with playing time though. that window you describe for coaches to move is like a players eligibility. they only have four years to play and you should be able to seek what best fits.

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I have to say that these latest developments have been disturbing and I am really curious as to the real reason behind these moves. I understand Twyman and Wells - but hope that we get some real answers about Baker and McKay. There was a strong need for McKay and the opportunity was there for playing time. Perhaps it was as simple as the fact that he was very close with the Aussies on the EWU team and not so much with our guys - who knows, but it certainly is a dramatic change in schools and geographic zones. As for Baker, I honestly think he was good enough to possibly get into the starting rotation next year(certainly no hard and fast rule that the seniors get priority over the underclassmen) - either way he would have gotten a decent amount of playing time on a very good team and then have 2 years left to really be a large cog in the wheel. Now if he stays at the same DI level, he has to sit out next year - which puts him exactly where he would have been if he had stayed.

 

Which brings us to the question raised earlier : does any of this this have anything to do with Coach's status? why are we hearing nothing on that front? why has nothing been finalized? an unsettled situation can't be good for recruiting.

 

The bolded statement is why I think he really left because he wants to be closer to home so his family cna come to more games and experience his basketball career. Now if he ends up in the south somewhere or out west then I will question this a little more.

 

One other point is that he doesn't "lose" a year of eligibility if he transfers. He still would have to earn the time (here or wherever he ends up) but if he thinks next year is less minutes than this year it might be worth sitting one year to get three years of playing time.

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Could be in for a tough 16-17 season!

 

A lot can happen between now and then but...yeah, at this point in time not sure how steep the cliff is going to be after next year. There is very little 4 year core talent being developed. Baker was a pretty big loss in that regard.

 

I'm not as worried about 16-17 even without new additions. If our starting five is Tre Green (assuming he stays) Cremo, Dallas, Mike Rowley and Richard Peters I'll take that.

 

 

However, since you bring him up, I've seen on a few occasion glimpses of solid play from Tre, wonder what type of player he can be.

 

I liked him too. Really strong and quick. His decision making wasn't always the best but hopefully that will get better. It's the area I thought Evan Singletary was really good right from the start and why he started right away. He seems to always keep his head the way Mike Black used to.

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Tre should pick up some minutes Baker would have gotten. At one point last pre-season, Tre was supposedly ahead of Singletary for the starting point guard job. So the talent is there and I hope he had his 1 year juco transfer adjustment and really helps us next year and 16 and beyond. Some blogs have commented "if he stays," and others seem to have forgotten him completely. Is there any real reason for this or is it just idle speculation or transfer paranoia ?? (which does seem justifiable this year)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Wheeler going to North Dakota St... Just saw it in Twitter. I believe only a few hours from home. So the reason he left appears to check out. Thanks for a giod year, I'll follow his career to see how he does there. Plenty of playing time.. M

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I always like to look for coincidences and ironies and it seems Baker should recognize the Bison 14-15 season ... They went 24-10 (we were 24-9), they won the conf title by 1 point (57-56 over So Dak St), they lost by 10 to Gonzaga in first round (we lost by 9 to OU) ... For Baker, it is probably more important that their leading scorer was a senior (18.9 per). The only other double-figure average was 11.6 (Rs Fr). I give Baker best wishes.

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