Saints big test

[bob87]

For those who are hoping for an Iona victory forget it Siena as luck will have it will play an Iona (a 325 RPI team) missing two of its better players.

 

 

Does that even matter in the case of a winless team. I mean they lost with their best players in every game they played in this season

[statefan]

I guess i have no credibility when it comes to Siena questions, but i really have an intellectual curiosity about the following: Siena plays 4 conference games against teams with RPIs of 319 or worse, then a bracketbuster game, at home, against a team with an RPI of 298. Could they win all 5 and wind up with a worse RPI than they started the 5 games with?

[bob87]

I guess i have no credibility when it comes to Siena questions, but i really have an intellectual curiosity about the following: Siena plays 4 conference games against teams with RPIs of 319 or worse, then a bracketbuster game, at home, against a team with an RPI of 298. Could they win all 5 and wind up with a worse RPI than they started the 5 games with?

 

 

I would go with no they can not win all 5 and Yes they will have a worse RPI after the 5 than now regardless of what they do!

[bob87]

I guess i have no credibility when it comes to Siena questions, but i really have an intellectual curiosity about the following: Siena plays 4 conference games against teams with RPIs of 319 or worse, then a bracketbuster game, at home, against a team with an RPI of 298. Could they win all 5 and wind up with a worse RPI than they started the 5 games with?

 

 

To add to the last post, right now Siena's opponents record is 233 -210 for a .525 winning percent. Add in the 5 opponents the record becomes 244-304 for a .445 winning percentage with no other changes. That would be a drop of .081 offsetting Siena's winning percentage that would go up .092. Remember opponents record counts more than yours in the RPI.

[UAalum72]

I agree with you about the current mental state of the posters over there, and a really compassionate person would have empathy for it.

Yeah, but schadenfreude is so much more fun

 

It's not quite as bad as during the last year of Lanier, but it's edging closer. Once I described the atmosphere over there almost as cannibalistic in that last Lanier season.

I believe the phrase I used was 'they're eating their young'.

[OrangeDane]

I know its hard not to get emotional about Siena....but...as someone who went there for two years and then transferred to Syracuse and got my BS there and my Masters at U-A...I have some thoughts...and I mean no disrespect to the L-ville faithful.....but...heck I was there for Siena's "historic" first trip to Manley.... I got lots of former Siena classmates into the "Zoo" for that night....heck even Bob McNamara was there...but alas....they came up about 65 points short if memory serves, the Zoo loved it so much that the next year the SU student association staged an entire "BEAT SIENA WEEK" with a bonfire and beerparty....it was hysterical but proved to be so embarrassing to the SU Chancellor and administration that the Dean of Students actually forbid a Beat Siena Week celebration the third time they came up !!!!!....That was a ways back and Siena has obviously grown that program and they do ok....I do think that playing all their games at the TUC is an overreach....and...I would suggest that their fan demographic is changing...Siena went D-I fueled largely by the fact that at the time of the move from DII to D I they had a large local alumni contingent that were (mid 70's) prominent local "players" and these folks could remember Siena's "one shining moment" from the early-mid 50's when they were nationally ranked for a time in some "catholic college" poll...no disrespect intended here..I seriously think it was called a "catholic college poll" --political correctness was not a concept yet in 1952......it was as I recall by no means a national poll as we know it today and Siena's prominence on that small stage lasted for about one season or so...and indeed all of college basketball was different in the 50's ...it was not unusual for schools to play Kentucky one night and Oswego the next!!! But these prominent local folks (primed by a few media types...)wanted to get Siena back in the game since they had the dough and the alumni juice...and they did....that said...since the mid 70's Siena has itself evolved from being essentially a Capital District commuter school to a regional liberal arts school..and I think we would all have to agree that it does a pretty good job of fullfilling that mission and that the school is an asset to our community...but the demographic change means that the bulk of its graduates no longer stay here....and so...the Siena fan base (and the local alumni power base that fuels the program economically...) is aging out....that's why the TUC is so quiet during their games....my point is that Siena's move to D-1 was primarily driven by the dreams and memories of their more prominent local alumni and not for business/strategic reasons....and as the CD alumni base reduce in numbers its gonna be harder and harder for them to hold on....

 

UA on the other hand has gone D-1 with a business plan and a long term strategy that is based upon business principals and is focused on the future rather than glories and memories of days past...when that strategic vision is combined with the fact that as the region's major public institution U-A has access to a potential local alumni base that absolutely dwarfs Siena....then I think it becomes obvious that in the long run U Albany is likely to, in 5-10 years, be at the point where they noticeably surpass Siena in terms of quality of competion and fan support...its simply a question of numbers and dollars and those factors over the long run favor U - A!!!

 

Those are my thoughts on the Siena stuff...everyone's got an opinion and I am sure some may agree and many may disagree...and again no disrespect intended to any of the Siena loyalists...just sharing my view of history...

[UA_MA_2000]

I've always said I'd never go to any Siena game that was not the Danes v Siena. If I lived in the area though, it would be hard to resist Thursday's match up with 0-21 Iona.

 

Go Gaels

 

 

It probably would be funny reading on the Siena board, but no way they lose. Iona is 0-21 I'm not sure what I'd like to see more Siena lose or Iona go winless on the season. If Siena's RPI keeps dropping will they start to be a drag on our RPI or does it not matter for teams you lost to?

 

 

Iona has at least taken Fairfield to 2 overtimes this season. They also lost to Canisius at their place in OT. They lost on Jan. 20 to Niagara 80-81. Every other loss, I think, has been by double digits. If Siena fails to pull out a "W"; oh man ... . I think I'm going to attend the game.

[saints73]

How many times does Siena have to beat SUNY before some of the posters on this board drop the disparaging remarks. Siena beat SUNY this year....get over it! How can you guys (some not all) still talk trash? You lost!

 

BTW, despite our record, our RPI is still better. HAHAHAHA.

http://www.collegeinsider.com/rpi/

[UA_MA_2000]

I know its hard not to get emotional about Siena....but...as someone who went there for two years and then transferred to Syracuse and got my BS there and my Masters at U-A...I have some thoughts...and I mean no disrespect to the L-ville faithful.....but...heck I was there for Siena's "historic" first trip to Manley.... I got lots of former Siena classmates into the "Zoo" for that night....heck even Bob McNamara was there...but alas....they came up about 65 points short if memory serves, the Zoo loved it so much that the next year the SU student association staged an entire "BEAT SIENA WEEK" with a bonfire and beerparty....it was hysterical but proved to be so embarrassing to the SU Chancellor and administration that the Dean of Students actually forbid a Beat Siena Week celebration the third time they came up !!!!!....That was a ways back and Siena has obviously grown that program and they do ok....I do think that playing all their games at the TUC is an overreach....and...I would suggest that their fan demographic is changing...Siena went D-I fueled largely by the fact that at the time of the move from DII to D I they had a large local alumni contingent that were (mid 70's) prominent local "players" and these folks could remember Siena's "one shining moment" from the early-mid 50's when they were nationally ranked for a time in some "catholic college" poll...no disrespect intended here..I seriously think it was called a "catholic college poll" --political correctness was not a concept yet in 1952......it was as I recall by no means a national poll as we know it today and Siena's prominence on that small stage lasted for about one season or so...and indeed all of college basketball was different in the 50's ...it was not unusual for schools to play Kentucky one night and Oswego the next!!! But these prominent local folks (primed by a few media types...)wanted to get Siena back in the game since they had the dough and the alumni juice...and they did....that said...since the mid 70's Siena has itself evolved from being essentially a Capital District commuter school to a regional liberal arts school..and I think we would all have to agree that it does a pretty good job of fullfilling that mission and that the school is an asset to our community...but the demographic change means that the bulk of its graduates no longer stay here....and so...the Siena fan base (and the local alumni power base that fuels the program economically...) is aging out....that's why the TUC is so quiet during their games....my point is that Siena's move to D-1 was primarily driven by the dreams and memories of their more prominent local alumni and not for business/strategic reasons....and as the CD alumni base reduce in numbers its gonna be harder and harder for them to hold on....

 

UA on the other hand has gone D-1 with a business plan and a long term strategy that is based upon business principals and is focused on the future rather than glories and memories of days past...when that strategic vision is combined with the fact that as the region's major public institution U-A has access to a potential local alumni base that absolutely dwarfs Siena....then I think it becomes obvious that in the long run U Albany is likely to, in 5-10 years, be at the point where they noticeably surpass Siena in terms of quality of competion and fan support...its simply a question of numbers and dollars and those factors over the long run favor U - A!!!

 

Those are my thoughts on the Siena stuff...everyone's got an opinion and I am sure some may agree and many may disagree...and again no disrespect intended to any of the Siena loyalists...just sharing my view of history...

 

OrangeDane: Very well thought-out analysis and approach. I would have to say that I agree with you. I think a lot of Siena alumni do stay in the area, but I agree with you that it's becoming more of a regional school. I will say also that the Siena kids that I know do seem to be very well prepared for their careers (not saying UA kids aren't; simply offering kind words about Siena alumni). Siena is obviously doing its job academically speaking.

 

Having said this, I don't think Siena will continue to keep up with and average a higher attendance than UAlbany (5-10 years, maybe less) for basketball games. As you point out, the numbers just aren't there. UAlbany has lots of local graduates, is a regional and even nationally reconizable public institution (certainly in academic spheres, if not athletically), and in just seven years since going Division I, we are already leading the America East in attendance. I think the Marist game gave Siena about 6,000 in attendance (and it was Martin Luther King Jr. Day, a holiday), but I imagine they are more around 5K each game, save the UA and Marist games. But I'm just speculating about Siena's attendance. I don't have actual numbers. I do think, however, that our attendance will rival theirs in just a few years as more and more UA people get interested. Not to mention macro-level economic forces in general; i.e., increasing tuition costs, should, IMHO, boost enrollment at public schools generally as opposed to private schools. What do I know though ... .

 

Notably, most students at UA who have taken interest in UA athletics haven't even graduated yet! There are many UAlbany alumni who haven't taken interest yet because sports were never there (like they are now) when they were students, and I think they just haven't jumped on the bandwagon yet. But the students currently at UA will become alumni someday soon, and then hopefully buy season tickets just as I did. I think that what we are seeing at UAlbany is just the early stages of something great for this area. And I hope Siena remains as strong or gets stronger as well (just not stronger than us ... hehe). There is no reason why we shouldn't sell out the Times Union Ctr. for the UA vs. Siena game. A strong Siena and UAlbany make for a strong Albany and vice versa.

 

Now how cool would it be if Saint Rose ever went from Division II to Division I ... hehe (I don't know what the requirements are for that, and if I did, I would imagine St. Rose could not satisfy them, but it's nice to imagine it).

[purplehaze]

The BracketBusters MAAC opponents, as borrowed from their web-site:

Siena gets RPI #298, UAlbany gets RPI # 91. Now that's pretty good stuff.

 

Canisius( 210) at Coastal Carolina (266)

William & Mary ( 189) at Fairfield (259)

Iona(325) at Delaware ( 264)

Loyola (192.) at Tennessee State (225)

Manhattan(219) at Eastern Michigan ( 251)

Colgate ( 271) at Marist ( 129)

Liberty ( 299) at Niagara(229)

Murray State( 204) at Rider ( 182)

Saint Peter’s( 321) at Tennessee-Martin (315)

James Madison( 298) at Siena ( 130)

 

Go Dukes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bob87]

How many times does Siena have to beat SUNY before some of the posters on this board drop the disparaging remarks. Siena beat SUNY this year....get over it! How can you guys (some not all) still talk trash? You lost!

 

BTW, despite our record, our RPI is still better. HAHAHAHA.

http://www.collegeinsider.com/rpi/

 

 

 

Really, did the season end with that 1 point OT game or do the next 15 games have something to do with the season.

BTW, the RPI on your site has UA at 100 and Siena at 121.

http://www.collegeinsider.com/rpi/index.cfm?do=rpi

 

http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_Men.html

 

Real time has UA at 101 and Siena at 130

 

Pomeroys also has UA at 101 and Siena at 130

 

So get your fake coaches one out of here.

 

BTW, what matters are the standings UA is sitting at 7-2 half a game out of first place in second place. They are in contention for back to back NCAA bids. While Siena has lost 5 of their last 7 conference games in a weaker conference to fall in to a 5 way tie for 4th to 8th. But, hey you played your best game of the season 59 days ago. I am sure your fans won't complain if you put up another stinker on Thursday knowing that you were able to win on your home court 2 months ago.

 

And hey ESPN really respects you. NOT. UA got the TV game again while ESPN thinks a 298 RPI team is a suitable/equal opponent for you.

 

Thanks, I enjoyed that.

[olddog71]

Thanks, bob87, UA_MA_2000, and OrangeDane, for your erudite analysis of the opposing trends in local interest in the Capital District's two Division I men's basketball programs. The programs do indeed seem to be going in completely different directions. I would like to add my vision to the developments of the last few years and what I foresee in the not so distant future.

 

I see a continually aging Siena fanbase, physically and financially unable to make a large number of trips to the TUC to see their beloved Saints. The audience will dwindle so much that Siena games will no longer be held downtown but revert back to the Arc.

 

The Danes will continue to experience exponential fan growth for all the reasons you guys cited above. Our games will all be held at an expanded SEFCU arena since it will be the only facility large and cheap enough to hold UAlbany-Siena games. We will then win the first six games of the second stage of the modern rivalry since only we will the home team.

 

Siena fans will complain about the parking since they will have to walk over from Colonial Quad, in addition to whining about getting the noseblood seats in the new expanded CU.

 

Is this scenario so far-fetched?

[saints73]

"Fake" coaches poll? Bob you are pretty funny. Again, Siena beat Albany again this year. Get over it!! You had your chance and blew it. Next year will even be worse after the Danes lose Wilson. Kenny, Ubiles, Franklin will only get better and Clarence Jackson will be another superfrosh. I fear that the games will become less of a contest as Siena loads up on talent.

 

BTW, when is the last time you beat Vermont on their home court? Oh, that's right....never. We bitch slapped them last year in Catamount country. Good luck trying to win the AE title.

[Clickclack]

How many times does Siena have to beat SUNY before some of the posters on this board drop the disparaging remarks. Siena beat SUNY this year....get over it! How can you guys (some not all) still talk trash? You lost!

 

BTW, despite our record, our RPI is still better. HAHAHAHA.

http://www.collegeinsider.com/rpi/

 

 

Oh Saint73, comeon you go find about the only rpi site that has you ahead and post it here. Look at the rest of them, while you keep losing we keep winning. Not to mention that MAAC is a worse confrence top to bottom then AE this year and you are still losing 5 of 8. Not to mention the members on your board are at each others throats and some are taking it out on McCaffrey like he takes it out on his clipboard. You have talent, nobody says you don't but you don't have it together as of yet and probably won't this season down the stretch. Enjoy your team and don't come here looking for trouble.

[olddog71]

"Fake" coaches poll? Bob you are pretty funny. Again, Siena beat Albany again this year. Get over it!! You had your chance and blew it. Next year will even be worse after the Danes lose Wilson. Kenny, Ubiles, Franklin will only get better and Clarence Jackson will be another superfrosh. I fear that the games will become less of a contest as Siena loads up on talent.

 

BTW, when is the last time you beat Vermont on their home court? Oh, that's right....never. We bitch slapped them last year in Catamount country. Good luck trying to win the AE title.

 

Nice picture you paint there, but not exactly reality.

 

We'll load up again with talent. UAlbany has already signed almost its entire 07-08 class, and what will happen with all of Siena's talent? Thinking they have superior skills to anyone else, they'll bolt Loudonville and head to places like Miami and Pittsburgh.