MBB: vs. Binghamton

[Big D]

I'm frustrated that we struggled to beat Binghamton and UMBC at home. I expect more than that from the Men's hoop program at this point. Yes, we can explain away a bad performance in any single game based on almost anything ( injuries, missed foul shots, matchup problems, hot shooting opponent, etc. etc). A large sample of games tells a more meaningful story, and I must admit to being very disappointed with the evolution of the program since Jamar graduated. Since then (6 1/2 years ago), our AE conference record is a thoroughly mediocre 49-53. We should dominate the America East. Vermont is 76-25 in conference play during the same time frame. Beyond that, our attendance is static, community interest is no different than it was 7 years ago, and there does not appear to be any reason to think league dominance is coming anytime soon. There was a feeling in 2007 that the UA hoop program was on the launching pad, and that with a few more good recruiting classes, we would outgrow the AE, and every game would be close to a sellout. That has not happened. I like a lot of our current players, and I certainly appreciate that WB recruits high character freshman who are student-athletes. I like coach, respect what he does, and have supported him when others were " calling for his head" in the past. Mike Brown's layup vs. Stonybrook in the AE tourney, followed by the terrific win at Patrick in the AE final, earned WB another contract, so talk about coaching changes are pointless for at least a couple of years. Coach Abe is a good example of what a talented coach can do for a program. That is a discussion for another time. What we need in the short term is on the court talent (4 year talent, not JUCOs who may give you one productive year) and a plan for growth, not sustained mediocrity.

[McFan]

I'm frustrated that we struggled to beat Binghamton and UMBC at home. I expect more than that from the Men's hoop program at this point. Yes, we can explain away a bad performance in any single game based on almost anything ( injuries, missed foul shots, matchup problems, hot shooting opponent, etc. etc). A large sample of games tells a more meaningful story, and I must admit to being very disappointed with the evolution of the program since Jamar graduated. Since then (6 1/2 years ago), our AE conference record is a thoroughly mediocre 49-53. We should dominate the America East. Vermont is 76-25 in conference play during the same time frame. Beyond that, our attendance is static, community interest is no different than it was 7 years ago, and there does not appear to be any reason to think league dominance is coming anytime soon. There was a feeling in 2007 that the UA hoop program was on the launching pad, and that with a few more good recruiting classes, we would outgrow the AE, and every game would be close to a sellout. That has not happened. I like a lot of our current players, and I certainly appreciate that WB recruits high character freshman who are student-athletes. I like coach, respect what he does, and have supported him when others were " calling for his head" in the past. Mike Brown's layup vs. Stonybrook in the AE tourney, followed by the terrific win at Patrick in the AE final, earned WB another contract, so talk about coaching changes are pointless for at least a couple of years. Coach Abe is a good example of what a talented coach can do for a program. That is a discussion for another time. What we need in the short term is on the court talent (4 year talent, not JUCOs who may give you one productive year) and a plan for growth, not sustained mediocrity.

 

One of the best posts yet. No real growth in this program. Vermont changes coaches and doesn't miss a beat.

 

We give reasons/excuses why we struggle against Bing at home. Injured. New players. Listen we have what 5 of our top seven from last year on the floor against a team that was dismantled a few years ago, without their top scorer, w/o another rotation player, on our home court???? Just doesn't add up.

[MRSGDG]

Stony Brook can be 14-2 in conference (last year) but I sure did enjoy the NCAA better than their fans did. Just saying, everyone seems tense about not being 5-0.

[Clickclack]

I'm frustrated that we struggled to beat Binghamton and UMBC at home. I expect more than that from the Men's hoop program at this point. Yes, we can explain away a bad performance in any single game based on almost anything ( injuries, missed foul shots, matchup problems, hot shooting opponent, etc. etc). A large sample of games tells a more meaningful story, and I must admit to being very disappointed with the evolution of the program since Jamar graduated. Since then (6 1/2 years ago), our AE conference record is a thoroughly mediocre 49-53. We should dominate the America East. Vermont is 76-25 in conference play during the same time frame. Beyond that, our attendance is static, community interest is no different than it was 7 years ago, and there does not appear to be any reason to think league dominance is coming anytime soon. There was a feeling in 2007 that the UA hoop program was on the launching pad, and that with a few more good recruiting classes, we would outgrow the AE, and every game would be close to a sellout. That has not happened. I like a lot of our current players, and I certainly appreciate that WB recruits high character freshman who are student-athletes. I like coach, respect what he does, and have supported him when others were " calling for his head" in the past. Mike Brown's layup vs. Stonybrook in the AE tourney, followed by the terrific win at Patrick in the AE final, earned WB another contract, so talk about coaching changes are pointless for at least a couple of years. Coach Abe is a good example of what a talented coach can do for a program. That is a discussion for another time. What we need in the short term is on the court talent (4 year talent, not JUCOs who may give you one productive year) and a plan for growth, not sustained mediocrity.

 

One of the best posts yet. No real growth in this program. Vermont changes coaches and doesn't miss a beat.

 

We give reasons/excuses why we struggle against Bing at home. Injured. New players. Listen we have what 5 of our top seven from last year on the floor against a team that was dismantled a few years ago, without their top scorer, w/o another rotation player, on our home court???? Just doesn't add up.

 

I'm willing to give it a full year to see if it's injuries... The play even from the start of the year has noticeably slipped. Makes no sense.

 

Big d made a lot of excellent points... Last year's run was unexpected and amazing... But overall we are no better then where we were 7 years ago. In fact it's hard to try and turn a blind eye at that very very mediocre ae record... To have a losing record in this poor a conference is painful to accept. Uvm and sbu have both been flat out spanking us for a long time now, obviously the exception being last year's ae tourney. I like that next year's class is mostly all 4 year kids but this program can be more. It's not acceptable to be routinely manhandled by uvm and sbu. No one is saying we need to have top 100 rpi year in and year out.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Clickclack

[Clickclack]

Stony Brook can be 14-2 in conference (last year) but I sure did enjoy the NCAA better than their fans did. Just saying, everyone seems tense about not being 5-0.

 

Tense not about the record but really poor play. Uvm should have been brought up on assault charges for what they did to our team... We didn't even compete. It's not acceptable year in and year out. While the obvious goal is to get into the tourney, I don't accept the premise that the ooc and ae play doesn't matter. With that attitude are destined for first round exit when we get in. The ooc and ae play matters...

[McFan]

Stony Brook can be 14-2 in conference (last year) but I sure did enjoy the NCAA better than their fans did. Just saying, everyone seems tense about not being 5-0.

 

I get that and enjoyed the trip to Philly too.

 

But it's not the not being 5-0. It's a long trend of a lack of progress. Maybe we were hoping for too much. But look at this program since Jamar. Do you see any growth. On the team? In the stands? From the community? Why not?

 

I don't have aspirations to be a top 25 team, but in this conference we should be better than .500 year in and year out. Substantially better. There are absolute gimmes in this conference.

 

Solutions were asked for:

 

Pick up the pace. We are better early in the shot clock than late.

 

Allow players to make mistakes. Brown threw his arms out after Dallas missed a three.

 

Develop a bench in the pre conference so we can adjust to injuries.

[MRSGDG]

Stony Brook can be 14-2 in conference (last year) but I sure did enjoy the NCAA better than their fans did. Just saying, everyone seems tense about not being 5-0.

 

I get that and enjoyed the trip to Philly too.

 

But it's not the not being 5-0. It's a long trend of a lack of progress. Maybe we were hoping for too much. But look at this program since Jamar. Do you see any growth. On the team? In the stands? From the community? Why not?

 

I don't have aspirations to be a top 25 team, but in this conference we should be better than .500 year in and year out. Substantially better. There are absolute gimmes in this conference.

 

Solutions were asked for:

 

Pick up the pace. We are better early in the shot clock than late.

 

Allow players to make mistakes. Brown threw his arms out after Dallas missed a three.

 

Develop a bench in the pre conference so we can adjust to injuries.

 

Last year we saw UA MBB getting into the mid major poll. UA's website says it's the first time since we became D1 that we were ranked. Are the attendance stats up someplace? I looked in the media guide but couldn't find them per year. I dunno, but I know everyone (well not everyone..not Bob lol) thought Siena was going to move on, go to a better conference blah blah and look they're still in the MAAC doing average if that. I have only watch college bball for about 8 years, so maybe I don't have enough long term experience watching it...but is this the difference between low mid major and mid major? Is it often that a low mid major school actually out performs others around them and comes up to bigger conferences and becomes a true mid major and competes with the top dogs? Not being flippant, it's an honest question to those who know college bball history. Are our expectations something that has actually occurred in college bball history.. and if they have how long after becoming D1 did it take them.

Edited January 22, 2014 by MsGDG

[UAalum72]

1999 1,290

2001 1,148

2002 1,649

2003 1,168

2004 1,193

2005 1,945

2006 2,541

2007 3,175

2008 3,031

2009 2,826

2010 2,646

2011 2,163

2012 2,480

2013 2,924

 

from http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-mens-basketball-attendance

 

So far this year, 2,640 thru seven games, with BPG to go.

Edited January 22, 2014 by UAalum72

[BestDaneSinceHamlet]

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to see on this board. Big D, you put it as articulately as I've tried to put it, but succeeded. Good to know that I am not the only one that is frustrated about the stagnancy of the program since Jamar.

 

As tiresome as that refrain may be to some, clearly there are others who share this frustration.

 

Plus, it seems that this has brought a lot of new names out of the woodwork on this board and the more voices the better.

 

Now let's get the program back on the upswing, and this board will be flooded. Isn't that what we ALL want?

[uofalbany]

UA 61 Duke 73 NCAA 2nd round 2013

While watching the game, I actually felt like we could win the game.

So, I guess we had some talent on that team.

 

That being said, we are a low/mid major. I don't think this program evolves into anything more than what we've already seen.

I don't think we ever see an NCAA win, under present conditions. Being in the AE doesn't help, but then again, look at what the women's coach is doing. I think we see a NCAA win soon there.

 

I have settled into the reality of the men's b-ball program. What's the definition of insanity?

Edited January 22, 2014 by uofalbany

[BestDaneSinceHamlet]

Something else to note is that Albany is the 57th largest media market in the country, not much smaller than Buffalo, and larger than a school like Wichita State (which draws 10k per game) or Evansville (4500/game).

 

The people are there, but the product isn't. People in this community will come out if there's something to be excited about. We saw that with 11k at the football stadium opening day.

 

Good reading in case you're interested

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdf

[MRSGDG]

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to see on this board. Big D, you put it as articulately as I've tried to put it, but succeeded. Good to know that I am not the only one that is frustrated about the stagnancy of the program since Jamar.

 

As tiresome as that refrain may be to some, clearly there are others who share this frustration.

 

Plus, it seems that this has brought a lot of new names out of the woodwork on this board and the more voices the better.

 

Now let's get the program back on the upswing, and this board will be flooded. Isn't that what we ALL want?

 

I think realistic expectations is what some conceive as complacency. As my post above asks..what has bball history shown us? Maybe I base my thoughts on facts and real life examples.. so it would help to give examples of other teams you're thinking of that we can mirror. What is it that makes the program on the downswing ..compared to who? Vermont? Vermont has been D1 for 34 years and has only been to the NCAAs 5 times and are still with the AE. We have been to the tournament 3 times in 15 years... that's not awful, that's a better ratio.

 

Thanks UAlum72 for the attendance numbers.

[UAalum72]

There haven't been many moveups lately, at least in the east. Old Dominion from CAA to C-USA was mostly football-driven; VCU and George Mason from CAA to Atlantic-10; it's been 20 years since Fordham and LaSalle moved from the MAAC to the A-10, and some football schools moved from A-10 to the Big East. Butler from Horizon to A-10 to Big East in three years.

 

If you want to move up, where to? For all the gnashing of teeth about America East's low ranking, Albany's attendance would be middle of the pack in the CAA, so that's not going to generate a lot of excitement. Average conf. attendance last year:

NEC 1,419

Patriot 1,743

AE 1,790

MAAC 2,156

CAA 3,072 - and they lose VCU, ODU, and Mason from last year.

 

Football won't help us if you're thinking about the A-10. The only way to move beyond that is to win multiple NCAA games in several years - and how often has that happened?

[UA'08]

I believe siena has certainly capitalized on their run they had. They're getting a brand new practice facility and have a lot of young talent. If it weren't for a bad coaching hire after their coach left who knows they may have actually gotten an invite to the A10. It's that 4.5 year stretch where we didn't capitalize on the back to back tourney appearances. The conference record speaks for itself as we've only had double digit wins in conference three times. Two of which were the championship years.

[MRSGDG]

There haven't been many moveups lately, at least in the east. Old Dominion from CAA to C-USA was mostly football-driven; VCU and George Mason from CAA to Atlantic-10; it's been 20 years since Fordham and LaSalle moved from the MAAC to the A-10, and some football schools moved from A-10 to the Big East. Butler from Horizon to A-10 to Big East in three years.

 

If you want to move up, where to? For all the gnashing of teeth about America East's low ranking, Albany's attendance would be middle of the pack in the CAA, so that's not going to generate a lot of excitement. Average conf. attendance last year:

NEC 1,419

Patriot 1,743

AE 1,790

MAAC 2,156

CAA 3,072 - and they lose VCU, ODU, and Mason from last year.

 

Football won't help us if you're thinking about the A-10. The only way to move beyond that is to win multiple NCAA games in several years - and how often has that happened?

 

Thanks appreciate the history and facts.